A 1800 Meter Luger !

[DonVoigt]

Originally Posted by sheepherder

Olle called my attention to a special cutter from Harvey Tool that he uses. I have their catalog, I'll see if I can find it.

Here we go...Corner rounding end mills...

http://www.harveytool.com/cat/Corner...ducts_200.aspx

Maybe if Olle sees this, he can say which one works best.



I just use what I've got. The cutter from Harvey would cost more in postage than the cutter itself. Plus Harvey doesn't sell to the general public; you have to order from one of their distributors.

I have a couple of Harvey's keyseat cutters specifically for Luger front sight inserts, but they are fragile.

Ollie gave me the number a couple years ago.
I bought two different ones, from China via Ebay, much cheaper.
You just have to do some searching and measuring.

Takes moving the cutter side to side to get the correct width with the correct radius.

The key cutters are fine , if you are not selling the barrels and want them to look like originals- as GT does.

I have a really small dovetail cutter for the sight base. They are really easy to break.

[Olle]

Originally Posted by sheepherder

Olle called my attention to a special cutter from Harvey Tool that he uses. I have their catalog, I'll see if I can find it.

Here we go...Corner rounding end mills...

http://www.harveytool.com/cat/Corner...ducts_200.aspx

Maybe if Olle sees this, he can say which one works best.



I just use what I've got. The cutter from Harvey would cost more in postage than the cutter itself. Plus Harvey doesn't sell to the general public; you have to order from one of their distributors.

I have a couple of Harvey's keyseat cutters specifically for Luger front sight inserts, but they are fragile.

Here's the one I use: http://www.harveytool.com/ToolTechIn...olNumber=17062. I run it to the correct depth, then I widen the cut 10/1000" left/light (total 20/1000"). It's probably as close as you will get to the correct shape without custom ordering, and it gives you an original looking cut and the proper clearance for the extractor.... or at least I haven't heard otherwise from GT.

I'm sure you can find a cheaper tool from China, but the cool thing about Harvey's catalog (as opposed to eBay) is that they have a plethora of diameters and shapes to choose from and the tools are top quality. The 17062 cutter is very close to specs, and should last longer than the Chinese bits as well. Tiny bits like this (especially in carbide) chatter and break easily when they start going dull, and it normally happens A: Friday afternoon and B: When you have a deadline to meet. IMO it pays off to buy good quality if your'e planning to do several barrels.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Olle

Here's the one I use: http://www.harveytool.com/ToolTechIn...olNumber=17062. I run it to the correct depth, then I widen the cut 10/1000" left/light (total 20/1000").

Excellent! I had written it down when Olle told me about it but when I received Harvey's latest catalog, I tossed the old one - With the note about the cutter.

FWIW, the dovetail cutter I use for Luger front sights is Harvey's # 28512, 3/16" x 40º carbide 2-flute dovetail cutter -

http://www.harveytool.com/ToolTechIn...olNumber=28512

[pitsword]

Rich, you never cease to amaze. Salute

[Patrick Sweeney]

A 9mm bullet at 1600 yards? Well, if we assume a 115 grain FMJ, starting at 1,200 fps, by the time it wanders down to 1,600 yards, it has a mere 288 fps left to its name. And the trip took just shy of 11 seconds. It will go through paper, but not much more.

[DonVoigt]

That 288 fps equates to about as much energy as a .25 auto at 10 ft or a .32 S&W at 50 yards or a .22 lr at 100 yards; more than enough energy to "hurt". I sure would not want to be hit by any of them.

[Rick W.]

Times and concepts change over time, time marches on it seems...

[hayhugh]

Mary had a little watch - she swallowed it - its gone! Now every where that Mary goes, Time Marches On.

[kurusu]

Originally Posted by sheepherder

A 1600 meter Luger???
What??? There ain't no such thing!!!

Of course there are 1800 meter Luger.

[sheepherder]

While doing another project, I remembered I needed a magazine for this fantasy barreled Luger. I visited Greg Cote's web site and ordered two more blued Muc-Gar Luger magazines. Unfortunately, they now come with plastic followers and bases. I don't like that look, so I emailed Gerry at G.T. Specialties. Gerry used to make some beautiful polished aluminum bases. He no longer makes them, which is a loss for us all, but he said he had an East German cast aluminum base, so I ordered one of those. They're undrilled blanks, as-cast, slightly oversized, and the casting seam is uneven. But they're 'good enough' for my amateur projects. Gerry once told me that he had various (and many) jigs for producing his excellent magazines and components, which produced uniform and correct pieces. I've only converted about a dozen Mec-Gar magazines so far, and I'm a firm opponent of 'production lines', so I only have the minimum of mandrels/jigs/fixtures to convert Mec-Gar magazines to all-metal items.

Here's what I do. Not as good as Gerry, but my customers (all one of me!) haven't complained.

Here's a blow-by-blow account of my base/follower modifications.



1. Some of the stock, parts, and mandrels I use.

2. Drifting out the base pins. Gerry has fantastic fixtures for doing this, but for my low-volume (two), my 1-ton press and some ground down drill rod blanks work just fine.

3. The disassembled Mec-Gar P08 magazine. Removing the button is always an annoyance, as the hole on the opposite side does not line up with the button hole. Argh!!! This seems to be typical of original Luger magazines as well.

4. I take a piece of brass bar stock for the follower and mill it to the approximate dimensions of the Mec-Gar follower, which is not the same as a P08 follower.



5. I start with drilling the button hole as my datum point.

6. Relieving the button hole with a 5mm end mill.

7. Milling the front edge to spec.

8. Half-round milling the front edge with a special end mill.

I like brass. I especially like it for magazine followers as its lead content adds to its lubricity.



9. Milling the step in the top of the follower.

10. Milling the base of the step in the follower. I'll break all sharp edges but other than that, this follower is finished.

Now I need to pay some attention to the aluminum base.

11. The 'East German' magazine base blank is too thick, so I'm taking a skim cut off each side until it is a snug fit.

12. Drilling the base blank for the Mec-Gar pins.



13. Milling reliefs on both sides.

14. Milling spring pocket in bottom.

15. Finished parts awaiting assembly.

16. Assembled magazine with brass follower and aluminum base.

Not as nice as G.T.'s work, I'm afraid. Adequate but not pretty.

Oh, well. It only has to work.

Pic of installed magazine. It locks in place and trips the hold-open. What more could you ask for???

[sheepherder]

Working on some off-topic projects, but getting ready to test fire a newly acquired Luger and the 'ring base' Mec-Gar magazines really annoy me...I just don't like those rings...So I took a 5/8" ball end mill and made them scalloped...

I'd switch it over to a brass follower + aluminum base configuration but I don't have an aluminum base right now...I'll keep this around for testing.

[DonVoigt]

I don't like those plastic "ring" bases either; the rings have been removed from mine too!
Only difference is I use a 1/2" ball end mill, 'cause that is what I have.

[sheepherder]

I mentioned in another thread that Numrich had an aluminum base magazine listed. I had an order in to Numrich so I had them add the Luger magazine to it -

Magazine, 9mm/7.65 Para
(.30 Luger), 7 Round, Blued
New (w/ Aluminum Bottom)
Product #: 466090

It came in today. As you can see from the pics below, it has a metal follower, button, and base.
I set it up in my mill with the 5/8" ball end mill ('cause that is what I have ) and proceeded to mill the finger depressions in the base. It was a tough cut. I had to use fairly strong pressure to get the end mill to cut. After I was done, I noticed that the pins were roll pins [split pins]. I knew they would drift out easily so I removed them and inspected the internal parts. I couldn't figure out why an "aluminum" base was so hard to mill. Even Zamak isn't that hard. ...D'Oh!... It's not aluminum! It's stainless steel! Last pic shows the base hanging from a magnet. Not as magnetic as the steel tube but enough iron & nickel to make it magnetic. And it's hard stainless; not soft.

No identifying marks anywhere. Flat checkered button. Round spring. Seems to function OK. Locks in place, button trips the hold-open. I still don't like the rings, but from now on, I'll stick to ball-milling plastic and aluminum, not these stainless magazines.

[sheepherder]

I received a call from Charles Danner last night that my Swedish sight equipped P08 would be finished later this week. Mr Danner had explained to me some time back that he painstakingly draw files, sands, and rust-blues the parts he refinishes. He also re-cuts any letters/numbers/graphics that the refinishing might diminish. His work removes pits, scratches, and blemishes. He did my Lahti and Nambu projects, as well as my Luger carbine and several 1911 builds. Excellent work, and Charles is a member here as well.

I don't want to tie up my lathe/mill table as I will be using it to install the parts removed from the P08 frame - mainspring, safety & pin, recoil lever & pin. So, in the meantime, rather than start a long project, I whipped up a 1911 recoil spring guide rod. I'll continue to polish it and shape the rear while waiting for the refinished P08 parts to come in.

I made a couple of these back in the 80's but I was never convinced that they did anything. Lately I have changed my mind. I had a 1911 that shot pretty well, so I dropped in a leftover JT Masen one-piece guide rod I had used as a pattern/master. With no other changes and the same ammunition, the point of impact changed dramatically. I'm still dialing that .45 in, but since I had some free time now I decided to make another.

I used a Grade 8 1/2" bolt 4 1/2" long, turned down on the lathe. It will take some time to polish it with many grades of wet/dry sandpaper, and then I'll either drill & ream out a spare guide rod plug or make a new plug out of another bolt. Whichever looks better.

Then I'll tackle the assembly of the 1600 Meter Luger.



Pic 1. Turning down the 1/2" bolt.
2. Bolt/rod polished and flange turned down.

Update: I was expecting this post to be the last for the 1911 guiderod, but as it turns out, I screwed up. I wish I could say that it's a rare occurrence, but hey, I make mistakes too. In this case, I didn't go big enough in my choice of bolt size. When I set the turned-down bolt/rod in the rotary indexing head, I found I didn't have enough diameter in the bolt head to accommodate the 'ears' that prevent the guide rod (stock or aftermarket) from rotating. There is a cut in the head of any 1911 guide rod that allows the barrel to drop down fully under full recoil. If the guide rod were to rotate, then the barrel would hit the rod and jam the action. The ears prevent rotation.

So, back to the hardware store and a couple of 9/16" Grade 8 bolts. I turned down and polished the first this afternoon/evening. I'll set it up in the rotary indexing head tomorrow. Maybe.

3.Turning down the 9/16" bolt.
4. Bolt.rod polished and flange partially turned down.



5 & 6. Rod chucked in the 4-jaw chuck on the indexing head. Pic shows head of guide rod being milled to include the 'ears'.
7. Cutoff tool being used in lathe to turn down the flange center.
8. Grinding wheel being used to extend the ears on each side to clear frame rails. (I didn't mill the circumference far enough). I just drilled a hole in a block of aluminum and turn the rod with a padded visegrip. Field expedient grinding jig.

I had noticed that I had an original Colt 2-piece guide rod assembly in my parts box, and after looking at it I decided if Colt could make one, so could I. So, I'll cut that first guide rod made from the 1/2" bolt and thread it to screw into a cut-off Colt guide rod plug.



9. End of rod has been threaded to 1/4" x 28tpi.
10 & 11. Guide rod plug is cut off ~3/8" from flange.
12. Guide nub is threaded 1/4" x 28tpi.

Threaded rod back in lathe chuck.



13. Threaded nub fitted to rod.
14. Both 1-piece and 2-piece rods ready for final fitting to length of 5" slides.
15. Making a guide rod plug for a Colt Commander.
16. The completed guide rod plug, guide rod (shortened to Commander length), and recoil spring for a Colt Commander.

I'll show pics of the finished Colt Combat Commander (with a Bo-Mar rib!) on page 3.

[sheepherder]

All right!!! The reblued and refinished Luger parts arrived today from Danner Gunsmithing! Charles & Sons did their usual excellent job of removing pits, scratches, blemishes, and oxidation!



Top pic shows parts as they were sent to Danner etc, bottom pic is as they came out of the box after refinishing.

Now to reassemble this Swedish sight-equipped long barreled Luger!



1. Reviewing all the parts, I noticed that I had milled out the V-notch in the Swedish Mauser sight leaf to a squqre 'Patridge' style notch but had neglected the slider V. So, here is the slider being milled. I only milled down to the bottom of the original V.

2. The bare frame is clamped to a suitably stable table. I clamp on the inside of the magazine tunnel. First item to be installed was the recoil lever and its pin. These were pushed on and I went on to the mainspring and its guide. I 'threaded' the mainspring on to the guide to simplify installation.

3. Now the captive mainspring and guide are slid into the frame and a steel rod (red line) used to compress the spring while using a pick (or small screwdriver) to guide the hook on the mainspring guide onto the recoil lever. (Jim Solomon's mainspring tool could be used here, but I had used the knobbed-rod before and was familiar with it so that's what I used). That completes the mainspring installation.

4. Next I installed the safety bar, safety catch, and safety pin. Tapped the pin in place with a suitable drift.

Continuing reassembly.



5. The hold-open assembly is installed next. I use a razor blade to hold the spring while pushing down and forward on the hold-open latch. Next, the locking bolt spring and locking bolt were inserted, and the trigger and trigger spring and the magazine catch and its spring were also slid into place. All push-on pieces; no special tools or procedure needed.

6. This completes the reassembly of the Luger lower assembly. Danner & Associates strawed the magazine catch, locking bolt, safety catch, and trigger as part of their refinishing. Looks good!!!

Next up is the reassembly of the upper ('cannon') assembly.

7. Reassembling the trigger lever in the trigger plate. Line up the lever and slide in the pin.

8. Using a drift to rotate the pin into the locked podition.

Moving on to the last of the reassemblies.



9. Using an undersize pin to line up the Swedish Mauser rear sight leaf, and tapping the sight pin in.

10. Torqueing the front sight base in place, using the aluminum spanner and a large Crescent wrench to line up my marks.

That pretty much completes the reassembly of the Swedish rear sight 1600 meter Luger. I have a set of new grips but they need fitting, which I really suck at.

I've attached a couple pics of the left/right/top for now. I'll try to get a set of pics with grips in a good light.

[sheepherder]

I dug through my box of odds & ends and came up with a pair of Numrich 'laser-cut' grips. They look like Walnut, they're darker than I like, but it gives a good idea what this Luger would look like.









It doesn't really look all that much different from a 'regular' artillery Luger.

I have a set of light color Sarco grips, coarser checkering and kind of chunky, but definitely a different look.







The Sarco coarse-checkered light color grips don't look as good as the dark Walnut.

[Sieger]

Sheepherder,


You are some pistol mechanic!!!!

Just wondering if it shoots and feeds properly?

Those lighter grips do appear a bit chunky and like they really don't fit too well.


Sieger

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Sieger

Just wondering if it shoots and feeds properly?

Surprisingly, yes. No stovepipes, no failure to feed, no hangups, great ejection (back and to the right this time). It did take me the better part of a box of reloads to get anything on paper. I need to hold down and to the right to hit the black. <shrugs>.

Those lighter grips do appear a bit chunky and like they really don't fit too well.

The bottoms are thicker than anywhere else. Looks ugly. I'll stick with the Numrich grips for now.

The shooter Luger shot quite well, didn't have to hold anywhere off paper. I shoot 6:00 o'clock sight picture. Shooting it after shooting the heavy long barrel took a bit of adapting. But after I got it where I wanted it and ran a couple magazines through it, I did manage to get 5 in the black. Not all from the same magazine, but hey, I'll take it.

I shot 115gr FMJ ahead of 5.25gr of W231 in both Lugers, left over from many years ago. Probably too much powder for a Luger. My Hornady book shows that combination @ ~1175fps...

[DonVoigt]

Rich says:
"Surprisingly, yes. No stovepipes, no failure to feed, no hangups, great ejection (back and to the right this time). It did take me the better part of a box of reloads to get anything on paper. I need to hold down and to the right to hit the black. <shrugs>. "

I sez, why is it a surprise? There are/were thousands of 8" bbl 9mm lugers that shot just fine(we call them artilleries).

You are a good machinist and know the luger well, so I would have been surprised if it did NOT
function well! JMHO.

Now you just need to adjust the sights and you will be fine.

[sheepherder]

OMG !!! DISASTER !!!

Well, not really a disaster. Just more like an annoyance.

When I took the Swedish meatball Luger out and shot it, I broke the cardinal rule of artillery Lugers: [even though this is not really an artillery Luger] Never fire it without securing the rear sight!!!

I forgot to wire/cable-tie the rear sight slider so it wouldn't move. As a result, the slider button broke...And chipped teeth on the sight leaf...

Luckily, Numrich, Liberty Tree, and some guy on eBay all had the parts necessary to fix the Swedish M94 carbine rear sight.

Here's the repair, with pictures!



1. Here's the broken sight in place. It slides back & forth without depressing the slider button. It worked fine before I shot it.

2. The first and fourth teeth on the sight leaf are broken off.

3. Here's the slider. It's not clear but the tip of the button is broken off. I think the broken tip is what broke the teeth off during firing. It probably got jammed in the slider.

4. I got a 'new' slider & leaf from Liberty Tree. As mentioned in another forum/thread, I've gotten Mauser carbine nose caps from Liberty Tree and they were all excellent quality for 100+ year old guns.

Next is disassembly and cleaning. I dipped it in lacquer thinner and cleaned off all the cosmoline. Then brushed it with a brass brush. Looks pretty good.



5. I clamped the 'new' sight in my mill and put a mini-screwdriver in the quill and broke the limit screw loose. This was a nice unbuggered screw and I didn't want to bugger it.

6. I removed the screw and slid the slider off and clamped it in my mill vise. A pointer chucked in the quill and centered in the 'V' notch gave me the center for my Patridge notch.

7. I milled the 'V' notch with a 1/8" end mill down to the bottom of the 'V'.

8. The leaf was then clamped in the vise and the 'V' notch centered once again.

Continuing...



9. Milling the sight leaf Patridge notch, again down to the bottom of the 'V'.

10. Here's the modified Swedish M94 carbine rear sight, showing the new Patridge notches.

11. Drifting out the broken rear sight.

12. 'New' Liberty Tree rear sight installed.

I can't find any wire here, I'll have to make a trip to Ace Hardware and get a roll of thin steel wire to secure the sight when firing.

But I think this style rear sight is a mistake. If it's fired with the sight in the up position, it will flop back and forth during recoil & battery. I believe that is why the artillery Lugers used a stationary ramp rather than the folding leaf. Even then, the artillery Luger rear sights broke teeth and slider button tips.

So this fantasy Luger is pretty much relegated to display status. It'll be another 'Kim Kardassian' Luger; pretty but useless.



Since it's only a pretty face, my next project will be a display stand for it. Something simple. Like Kim.