Buying Shooter Lugers Can Be an Adventure

Kyrie · 03-24-2018, 06:37 PM

Came across an attractive shooter Luger on Gun Broker, at a potentially attractive price. Sell had seventeen photos of the pistol. Luger was a 1915 DWM, looked to be mostly matching. Had been nicely reblued after a heavy buffing. The buffing had removed the military inspection, acceptance, and firing proof from the right side of the barrel extension, made the 1915 chamber date faint, and partially removed the DWM trademark on the toggle.

Based on seller photos my thinking was it was likely an Erfurt gun with a DWM toggle train. Not perfect for a shooter, but acceptable. So I bid and won the gun, have it in hand, and am seeing things I missed.

No rear sight on toggle train. The pistol is completely matching except for the barrel. Now I’m thinking it’s a 1915 DWM Artillery with the original barrel replaced with a four inch barrel. Poor bore.

Here are some photos:

http://s295.photobucket.com/user/Kyr...0reblue?sort=9

Waveski · 03-24-2018, 11:20 PM

"potentially attractive price..."

The bait is dangling I am a trout.....

ithacaartist · 03-25-2018, 01:17 AM

Yep, time to find an Arty barrel, with rear sight.

An Erfurt frame would have a crown/* proof on the front of the trigger guard.

Kyrie · 03-25-2018, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waveski

"potentially attractive price..."

The bait is dangling I am a trout.....

Alas, this is one of those "sometimes we get the bear and sometimes the bears get us" tales. When the gavel went down I was in for a bit over $900. Knowing what I know now, too much by a third.

The lesson here for me (and anyone who can learn from another's mistakes) is to look at each picture carefully, and carefully consider what cannot be seen in any picture.

Kyrie · 03-25-2018, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ithacaartist

Yep, time to find an Arty barrel, with rear sight.

An Erfurt frame would have a crown/* proof on the front of the trigger guard.

Yes sir, my thoughts exactly

Waveski · 03-25-2018, 10:43 AM

Returnable , perhaps on the basis of the missing sight ?
What was the policy on the listing?

Kyrie · 03-25-2018, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waveski

Returnable , perhaps on the basis of the missing sight ?
What was the policy on the listing?

Not really an option in my mind. The rear sight was clearly missing in at least one of the seller's photos and I should have noticed. My mistake, no fault of the seller.

I believe used firearms are very much a caveat emptor situation.

Waveski · 03-25-2018, 12:41 PM

"I believe used firearms are very much a caveat emptor situation. " So it goes. You get what you get. You are a good sport.

John Sabato · 03-26-2018, 10:23 AM

Kyrie, (and all others as well)

Please upload photos directly to the forum using the "go advanced" feature... and Manage Attachments. Posting photos on an exterior website causes problems because some members cannot access those types of websites from a work or government location... and secondly, those sites often "reorganize" and URL's change and then the photo is no longer available making the posting useless...

Eugen · 03-26-2018, 11:09 AM

Buying online can be risky. While photos are worth "a thousand words" sometimes they don't tell the whole story. Touching and feeling the gun for a complete inspection is so much better. Of course that is obvious, but not always possible or practical. So we take our chances.

OP, thanks for sharing your unfortunate experience. It is a stark reminder that we need to be careful out there.

Kyrie · 03-26-2018, 07:52 PM

Just back from the local pistol range. Mostly went to work a bit with a Glock mdl 20, but also took along the DWM 1915 and the DWM Commercial.

I'm of the age where I'm so far sighted I cannot see either the front or rear sights of a Luger, so I was not troubled by not having a rear sight on the 1915. I just used the two black blurs that were the toggle knobs and the blur that was front sight base.

Worked surprisingly well. At 21 feet found I could shoot five leaf clovers with each five round magazine. Had feeding problems, which went away when I switched from the vintage magazine to a new Mec-Gar.

Nice shooter

Diver6106 · 03-27-2018, 05:02 PM

I'd look for an artillery barrel with site and convert it back. Depending on what this cost, could be a very good buy at $900 + barrel replacement. Note that returning it because of no rear site is nuts, as it never did have a rear site.

Waveski · 03-27-2018, 09:44 PM

Diver ,
After reading your post I reread the op. So the lack of rear sight is due the fact that we ate talking about a mismatched artillery. I get it. Nuts on me.

Geo99 · 04-03-2018, 11:50 PM

You can shoot a cloverleaf pattern at 7 yards without a rear sight? That's about 5/8" group.
What do you need sights for? You're more accurate than most people shooting with sights!

- Geo

4 Scale · 04-04-2018, 11:47 AM

I think buying any Luger without a physical inspection is an adventure. I've been both pleasantly and unpleasantly surprised when the won item arrived at my FFL.

I find adventures enjoyable. If you are selective regarding cost and what you bid on, the risk can be controlled down to an acceptable level.

DavidJayUden · 04-04-2018, 12:41 PM

"I think buying any Luger without a physical inspection is an adventure. I've been both pleasantly and unpleasantly surprised when the won item arrived at my FFL. "

Much like buying M1 Garands thru the CMP program. You fill out the paperwork, include payment, drop in the mail, and then wait (in child-like excitement) to see what the mail man brings you.
dju

03-24-2018, 06:37 PM	#1
Kyrie User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 757 Thanks: 0 Thanked 212 Times in 101 Posts	Buying Shooter Lugers Can Be an Adventure Came across an attractive shooter Luger on Gun Broker, at a potentially attractive price. Sell had seventeen photos of the pistol. Luger was a 1915 DWM, looked to be mostly matching. Had been nicely reblued after a heavy buffing. The buffing had removed the military inspection, acceptance, and firing proof from the right side of the barrel extension, made the 1915 chamber date faint, and partially removed the DWM trademark on the toggle. Based on seller photos my thinking was it was likely an Erfurt gun with a DWM toggle train. Not perfect for a shooter, but acceptable. So I bid and won the gun, have it in hand, and am seeing things I missed. No rear sight on toggle train. The pistol is completely matching except for the barrel. Now I’m thinking it’s a 1915 DWM Artillery with the original barrel replaced with a four inch barrel. Poor bore. Here are some photos: http://s295.photobucket.com/user/Kyr...0reblue?sort=9

03-25-2018, 01:17 AM	#3
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,342 Thanks: 7,264 Thanked 2,569 Times in 1,363 Posts	Yep, time to find an Arty barrel, with rear sight. An Erfurt frame would have a crown/* proof on the front of the trigger guard. __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894

03-26-2018, 10:23 AM	#9
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	Kyrie, (and all others as well) Please upload photos directly to the forum using the "go advanced" feature... and Manage Attachments. Posting photos on an exterior website causes problems because some members cannot access those types of websites from a work or government location... and secondly, those sites often "reorganize" and URL's change and then the photo is no longer available making the posting useless... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

03-26-2018, 11:09 AM	#10
Eugen User Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Newburgh,IN Posts: 790 Thanks: 393 Thanked 631 Times in 334 Posts	Buying online can be risky. While photos are worth "a thousand words" sometimes they don't tell the whole story. Touching and feeling the gun for a complete inspection is so much better. Of course that is obvious, but not always possible or practical. So we take our chances. OP, thanks for sharing your unfortunate experience. It is a stark reminder that we need to be careful out there. __________________ “God created war so that Americans would learn geography.” ― Mark Twain

03-26-2018, 07:52 PM	#11
Kyrie User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 757 Thanks: 0 Thanked 212 Times in 101 Posts	Range Report Just back from the local pistol range. Mostly went to work a bit with a Glock mdl 20, but also took along the DWM 1915 and the DWM Commercial. I'm of the age where I'm so far sighted I cannot see either the front or rear sights of a Luger, so I was not troubled by not having a rear sight on the 1915. I just used the two black blurs that were the toggle knobs and the blur that was front sight base. Worked surprisingly well. At 21 feet found I could shoot five leaf clovers with each five round magazine. Had feeding problems, which went away when I switched from the vintage magazine to a new Mec-Gar. Nice shooter

03-24-2018, 11:20 PM	#2
Waveski User Join Date: Dec 2017 Posts: 66 Thanks: 4 Thanked 23 Times in 13 Posts	"potentially attractive price..." The bait is dangling I am a trout.....

03-25-2018, 10:43 AM	#6
Waveski User Join Date: Dec 2017 Posts: 66 Thanks: 4 Thanked 23 Times in 13 Posts	Returnable , perhaps on the basis of the missing sight ? What was the policy on the listing?

03-25-2018, 12:41 PM	#8
Waveski User Join Date: Dec 2017 Posts: 66 Thanks: 4 Thanked 23 Times in 13 Posts	"I believe used firearms are very much a caveat emptor situation. " So it goes. You get what you get. You are a good sport.

03-27-2018, 05:02 PM	#12
Diver6106 User Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Mt. Vernon VA Posts: 244 Thanks: 1,424 Thanked 117 Times in 75 Posts	I'd look for an artillery barrel with site and convert it back. Depending on what this cost, could be a very good buy at $900 + barrel replacement. Note that returning it because of no rear site is nuts, as it never did have a rear site.

03-27-2018, 09:44 PM	#13
Waveski User Join Date: Dec 2017 Posts: 66 Thanks: 4 Thanked 23 Times in 13 Posts	Diver , After reading your post I reread the op. So the lack of rear sight is due the fact that we ate talking about a mismatched artillery. I get it. Nuts on me.

04-03-2018, 11:50 PM	#14
Geo99 User Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Whidbey Island WA Posts: 398 Thanks: 102 Thanked 125 Times in 74 Posts	You can shoot a cloverleaf pattern at 7 yards without a rear sight? That's about 5/8" group. What do you need sights for? You're more accurate than most people shooting with sights! - Geo __________________ "Diplomacy is the art of saying nice doggie, until you can find a rock." - Will Rogers

04-04-2018, 11:47 AM	#15
4 Scale User Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 544 Thanks: 194 Thanked 489 Times in 251 Posts	I think buying any Luger without a physical inspection is an adventure. I've been both pleasantly and unpleasantly surprised when the won item arrived at my FFL. I find adventures enjoyable. If you are selective regarding cost and what you bid on, the risk can be controlled down to an acceptable level.

04-04-2018, 12:41 PM	#16
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	"I think buying any Luger without a physical inspection is an adventure. I've been both pleasantly and unpleasantly surprised when the won item arrived at my FFL. " Much like buying M1 Garands thru the CMP program. You fill out the paperwork, include payment, drop in the mail, and then wait (in child-like excitement) to see what the mail man brings you. dju