P-08 2nd. Issue Luger...???

Pete Ebbink · 04-19-2004, 02:14 PM

Found this photo of an odd 2nd. Issue luger in H. Jones' old book on pages 124-125. Is has no chamber date (i.e. 1908 or 1909 made), has it proof marks on the left hand side but is also numbered in the Military numbering style, which did not start until the 1910 chamber dated P-08's.

What was the story with this luger ?

Any more surface ?

Was this specimen found to be spurious ? Or just a 1st. Issue that was reworked at some time and Military numbered ?

<a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/p08_2nd_issue.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/p08_2nd_issue.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Ron Wood · 04-19-2004, 03:26 PM

Pete,
The so-called "second issue" 1908s were really just first issues that were subsequently re-worked for some reason and the military style serial numbering added. It is not uncommon to find "second issue" Lugers with the small parts numbered with both the commercial and military number placement.
I do not know how the "second issue" label came about.

Pete Ebbink · 04-19-2004, 03:31 PM

Thanks, Ron...the only place I saw the term "2nd. Issue" was in the Jones book. Jan Still does mention these in his IL book and states some collectors use the 2nd. issue term.

Maybe they should all be 1st. Issues with variations...???

Thanks for your help...

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Edward Tinker · 04-19-2004, 04:36 PM

EVERY book writer likes certain terms, many he has invented and feels they make sense. So, we have 1923 Commercials and 1920 Commericals, Black Widows, etc., that are not factory terms?

Let alone all the Navy variation names?

Ed

Dwight Gruber · 04-19-2004, 09:34 PM

I've seen "second issue" bandied about in several places. One author, in a source I can't cite right now, noted that there was no "second issue", but that the First Issue pistols with serial numbers added on the left chamber and exposed surfaces came about when these pistols came in for armory attention during their service life post-1910, and the marks were added to bring them into accordance with the 1910 marking regulations.

--Dwight

04-19-2004, 02:14 PM	#1
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	P-08 2nd. Issue Luger...??? Found this photo of an odd 2nd. Issue luger in H. Jones' old book on pages 124-125. Is has no chamber date (i.e. 1908 or 1909 made), has it proof marks on the left hand side but is also numbered in the Military numbering style, which did not start until the 1910 chamber dated P-08's. What was the story with this luger ? Any more surface ? Was this specimen found to be spurious ? Or just a 1st. Issue that was reworked at some time and Military numbered ? <a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/p08_2nd_issue.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/p08_2nd_issue.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

04-19-2004, 03:26 PM	#2
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,017 Thanks: 1,089 Thanked 5,164 Times in 1,700 Posts	Pete, The so-called "second issue" 1908s were really just first issues that were subsequently re-worked for some reason and the military style serial numbering added. It is not uncommon to find "second issue" Lugers with the small parts numbered with both the commercial and military number placement. I do not know how the "second issue" label came about. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

04-19-2004, 04:36 PM	#4
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,927 Thanks: 2,028 Thanked 4,525 Times in 2,090 Posts	EVERY book writer likes certain terms, many he has invented and feels they make sense. So, we have 1923 Commercials and 1920 Commericals, Black Widows, etc., that are not factory terms? Let alone all the Navy variation names? Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

04-19-2004, 03:31 PM	#3
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Thanks, Ron...the only place I saw the term "2nd. Issue" was in the Jones book. Jan Still does mention these in his IL book and states some collectors use the 2nd. issue term. Maybe they should all be 1st. Issues with variations...??? Thanks for your help... Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

04-19-2004, 09:34 PM	#5
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,899 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,305 Times in 429 Posts	I've seen "second issue" bandied about in several places. One author, in a source I can't cite right now, noted that there was no "second issue", but that the First Issue pistols with serial numbers added on the left chamber and exposed surfaces came about when these pistols came in for armory attention during their service life post-1910, and the marks were added to bring them into accordance with the 1910 marking regulations. --Dwight