byf 41 and holster

i8tokyo · 11-10-2004, 12:52 AM

Hello all. I have been a lurker here for some time, amazed at the passion you folks have for the Luger and it's variants. Now comes the time to ask for some insight from you.
Last year my father pasted away, among his belongings was a war trophy byf 41 Luger. The numbers are all matching, the finish is original with no pitting and only slight bluing lost from holster wear. It has one matching magazine, a takedown tool marked 655 below an eagle proof-mark. The holster is in good shape and marked OLV 40, an eagle perched on a swastika with WaA279 directly below. I took it into a local gun shop recently to have them place a value on it for insurance. They told me that $650 is the normal price for one in this condition, and added that the holster wouldn't be the one that the gun would have issued with. I thought this a bit low, and would like to ask you folks your opinions. I'm not really interested in the holster, as I understand they can be hard to keep in good condition. I don't ever plan on selling the Luger, but would like an idea of it's value.
As to the background on the luger: I know my father had several of these as war trophies from his time in Europe, and believe this one is the one he received when a German soldier surrendered to him. I have found no papers as to document him bringing them back, but I know they have went un-molested since he returned from the war. Included is a few pictures to help with your advise. Thanks in advance for any insight you may have..

Best,
Don

These are the markings from the back of the holster.

Edward Tinker · 11-10-2004, 01:08 AM

Well, the gun shop is wrong. Please provide pictures of the holster, so we can see it. Holsters on e-bay go for anywhere from $50 for a beat up one, to $200 for one in really, really nice shape.

A matching magazine adds around a $100 or even more to a gun.

Your loading tool is also worth from $25 - $85, all depending on how it is marked.

Here is a link to Simpsons they have many lugers, but remember this is retail price, with all matching, and no reblueing to the gun. A reblued luger is worth around the price they stated at the gunshop for the entire kit.

http://www.simpsonltd.com/LugerRoom/...ser_lugers.htm

Ed

RockinWR · 11-10-2004, 01:31 AM

Don,
* Your PT.08 holster was made by Ewald LÃ?Â¼neschloss of Soligen. Likely this article was made after mid 1940 as it is marked with the 3 letter manufacturer's code "dlu".
* It is not abnormal to find an earlier dated holster mated to a pistol 1 year its junior. The issuing Field Depot hardly operated on a strict FirstIn/FirstOut basis.
* The gun shop you queried must operate on quite a profit margin. If all parts are original & matching to the pistol, if all finish is Mauser factory original, and if the finish condition is uniformly the same over the entire pistol as shown in the pictures, I'd say they missed the value by a factor of 3.5 IMHO.
* Hope this helps.

Ron Smith · 11-10-2004, 01:34 AM

Don, don't get rid of the holster. Store it away, but keep it with the Luger. They are'nt that difficult to take care of. That one has survived for nearly 65 yrs without any special care. Just keep it at room temperature, keep it dry, and out of direct sunlight during storage. I have one from 1910 that is in perfect cond. with no special attention. A conservative guess at value on an all original, unmessed with Luger and holster like yours would be in the $1200-$1500+ range.

i8tokyo · 11-10-2004, 01:46 AM

Thanks for the feedback. I thought they were off and after lurking awhile, I was almost sure of it. Here is a few more pictures of the holster, the takedown tool, and the blue loss. If I were to place an original blue percentage on this piece, I'd say 90% still there. (only minor rubs as seen in the picture.) I am sure my father never did anything so far as reworking, bluing, etc. to this. Thanks again.

Best,
Don

George Anderson · 11-10-2004, 09:12 AM

If insurance is your concern, the pistol and holster "rig" should be insured for $2000.

John Sabato · 11-10-2004, 10:36 AM

A VERY Nice representative of the BYF 41 Mauser Luger... A family heirloom for sure... Just keep the holster clean with a brush, and keep it dry and out of direct sunlight as mentioned above. It looks like a dandy as well.

Welcome to the Lugerforum... don't be a stranger to the club.

i8tokyo · 11-12-2004, 10:41 PM

Thank you all for your assistance with this Luger. The more I look at it, and hold it, you can't help but admire it for the work of art it truly is. I have never felt a firearm than felt so natural in my hand. Studying the lines of it kind of puts a person in awe of the work that was involved in the fitting. No wonder you folks are so passionate for these weapons. They are truly beautiful. Thanks again, best to all...Don

G.T. · 11-12-2004, 10:47 PM

Find a correct spare mag for the rig....& KEEP IT FOREVER!!!! Don't ever sell any of it!! <img border="0" alt="[jumper]" title="" src="graemlins/jumper.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[jumper]" title="" src="graemlins/jumper.gif" /> You can't do any better! best to you, til...lat'r....GT

RockinWR · 11-13-2004, 12:38 AM

Don,
* I must say I was greatly influenced by your original post. After review of your posting's pictures again, I think a cross bar might exist on the middle letter of the maker's code. It is very difficult to tell from the one pic due to what appears to be the "tracks" of a stitching (sowing) machine. The last letter now clearly looks like a "v" to me. Therefore, I want to amend/expand my info to you. Please also consider the following PT maker's mark & code.
* PT.08 holsters, marked "dtv", were made by C. Otto Gehrcken, Leder-und-Riemenwerke of Pinneburg (a NW "suburb" of Hamberg). These Luger holsters also bore an E/WaA279 Inspector's stamp; but, are more frequently seen dated "41" or "42".
* A "dlv" maker's code is attributed toDeutsche Edelstahlwerke AG, Werk Remscheid of Remscheid, Germany on Papenberger Strasse 28. However, the Inspector's code listed for these holsters is E/WaA27.
* Thought you might like to also know these alternatives.
Respectfully,
Bob

11-10-2004, 12:52 AM	#1
i8tokyo User Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Olathe KS Posts: 22 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	byf 41 and holster Hello all. I have been a lurker here for some time, amazed at the passion you folks have for the Luger and it's variants. Now comes the time to ask for some insight from you. Last year my father pasted away, among his belongings was a war trophy byf 41 Luger. The numbers are all matching, the finish is original with no pitting and only slight bluing lost from holster wear. It has one matching magazine, a takedown tool marked 655 below an eagle proof-mark. The holster is in good shape and marked OLV 40, an eagle perched on a swastika with WaA279 directly below. I took it into a local gun shop recently to have them place a value on it for insurance. They told me that $650 is the normal price for one in this condition, and added that the holster wouldn't be the one that the gun would have issued with. I thought this a bit low, and would like to ask you folks your opinions. I'm not really interested in the holster, as I understand they can be hard to keep in good condition. I don't ever plan on selling the Luger, but would like an idea of it's value. As to the background on the luger: I know my father had several of these as war trophies from his time in Europe, and believe this one is the one he received when a German soldier surrendered to him. I have found no papers as to document him bringing them back, but I know they have went un-molested since he returned from the war. Included is a few pictures to help with your advise. Thanks in advance for any insight you may have.. Best, Don These are the markings from the back of the holster. __________________ Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8

11-10-2004, 01:08 AM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,931 Thanks: 2,032 Thanked 4,527 Times in 2,090 Posts	Well, the gun shop is wrong. Please provide pictures of the holster, so we can see it. Holsters on e-bay go for anywhere from $50 for a beat up one, to $200 for one in really, really nice shape. A matching magazine adds around a $100 or even more to a gun. Your loading tool is also worth from $25 - $85, all depending on how it is marked. Here is a link to Simpsons they have many lugers, but remember this is retail price, with all matching, and no reblueing to the gun. A reblued luger is worth around the price they stated at the gunshop for the entire kit. http://www.simpsonltd.com/LugerRoom/...ser_lugers.htm Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

11-10-2004, 01:34 AM	#4
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Don, don't get rid of the holster. Store it away, but keep it with the Luger. They are'nt that difficult to take care of. That one has survived for nearly 65 yrs without any special care. Just keep it at room temperature, keep it dry, and out of direct sunlight during storage. I have one from 1910 that is in perfect cond. with no special attention. A conservative guess at value on an all original, unmessed with Luger and holster like yours would be in the $1200-$1500+ range. __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

11-10-2004, 01:46 AM	#5
i8tokyo User Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Olathe KS Posts: 22 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for the feedback. I thought they were off and after lurking awhile, I was almost sure of it. Here is a few more pictures of the holster, the takedown tool, and the blue loss. If I were to place an original blue percentage on this piece, I'd say 90% still there. (only minor rubs as seen in the picture.) I am sure my father never did anything so far as reworking, bluing, etc. to this. Thanks again. Best, Don <a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/blueloss.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/blueloss.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> __________________ Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8

11-10-2004, 10:36 AM	#7
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	A VERY Nice representative of the BYF 41 Mauser Luger... A family heirloom for sure... Just keep the holster clean with a brush, and keep it dry and out of direct sunlight as mentioned above. It looks like a dandy as well. Welcome to the Lugerforum... don't be a stranger to the club. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

11-10-2004, 01:31 AM	#3
RockinWR User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: D/FW, Tx Posts: 279 Thanks: 109 Thanked 31 Times in 16 Posts	Don, * Your PT.08 holster was made by Ewald LÃ?Â¼neschloss of Soligen. Likely this article was made after mid 1940 as it is marked with the 3 letter manufacturer's code "dlu". * It is not abnormal to find an earlier dated holster mated to a pistol 1 year its junior. The issuing Field Depot hardly operated on a strict FirstIn/FirstOut basis. * The gun shop you queried must operate on quite a profit margin. If all parts are original & matching to the pistol, if all finish is Mauser factory original, and if the finish condition is uniformly the same over the entire pistol as shown in the pictures, I'd say they missed the value by a factor of 3.5 IMHO. * Hope this helps.

11-10-2004, 09:12 AM	#6
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,529 Times in 787 Posts	If insurance is your concern, the pistol and holster "rig" should be insured for $2000.

11-12-2004, 10:41 PM	#8
i8tokyo User Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Olathe KS Posts: 22 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thank you all for your assistance with this Luger. The more I look at it, and hold it, you can't help but admire it for the work of art it truly is. I have never felt a firearm than felt so natural in my hand. Studying the lines of it kind of puts a person in awe of the work that was involved in the fitting. No wonder you folks are so passionate for these weapons. They are truly beautiful. Thanks again, best to all...Don __________________ Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8

11-12-2004, 10:47 PM	#9
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,507 Thanks: 1,318 Thanked 3,653 Times in 1,004 Posts	Find a correct spare mag for the rig....& KEEP IT FOREVER!!!! Don't ever sell any of it!! <img border="0" alt="[jumper]" title="" src="graemlins/jumper.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[jumper]" title="" src="graemlins/jumper.gif" /> You can't do any better! best to you, til...lat'r....GT

11-13-2004, 12:38 AM	#10
RockinWR User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: D/FW, Tx Posts: 279 Thanks: 109 Thanked 31 Times in 16 Posts	Don, * I must say I was greatly influenced by your original post. After review of your posting's pictures again, I think a cross bar might exist on the middle letter of the maker's code. It is very difficult to tell from the one pic due to what appears to be the "tracks" of a stitching (sowing) machine. The last letter now clearly looks like a "v" to me. Therefore, I want to amend/expand my info to you. Please also consider the following PT maker's mark & code. * PT.08 holsters, marked "dtv", were made by C. Otto Gehrcken, Leder-und-Riemenwerke of Pinneburg (a NW "suburb" of Hamberg). These Luger holsters also bore an E/WaA279 Inspector's stamp; but, are more frequently seen dated "41" or "42". * A "dlv" maker's code is attributed toDeutsche Edelstahlwerke AG, Werk Remscheid of Remscheid, Germany on Papenberger Strasse 28. However, the Inspector's code listed for these holsters is E/WaA27. * Thought you might like to also know these alternatives. Respectfully, Bob