Info on Luger I may purchase??

Mark F. David · 03-12-2003, 04:42 PM

I am looking to buy my first Luger, and looked at one today. Since there are so many variations, and I am completely ignorant of all the things that I should look for, I decided to ask you experts to check my research (most of it done on this website).

Looking at the top of the pistol, there is a "G" near the barrel, a "93" (the last two digits of the s/n), then an "S/42" and another "93".

Looking at the left side of the pistol, the s/n is listed as 4x93, and all of the visible numbers are matching "93"s except for the sideplate, which has a "34" on it.

Looking at the right side of the pistol, there are three proof marks that match set 45 on the proof marks section of this website.

Looking at the underside of the pistol, on the top of the triggerguard is a cursive "B", or Greek Beta.

Also on the underside of the pistol, on the barrel is another full serial number, then closer to the trigger guard is "8+82"

So, from research on the above listed markings, I have concluded that this pistol is a "G-date", commercial contract pistol made by Mauser in 1935 - Right???

The bore looks very good, and the overall condition of the pistol is, I would say, about 95%.

All the numbers I saw matched except the sideplate, and of course, the magazine, which I understand hardly ever has a matching serial number.

The blueing looks even, the "strawing" is faded but still yellow, and the wooden grips are in nice shape.

My Bluebook (22nd edition) places the value at $900. I assume that would be for a pistol with all matching numbers except the magazine, though.

Does the relatively low serial number add anything to the value?

I guess my main question to you guys (other than confirmation that I did my research correctly), is how much should I deduct for the non-matching sideplate serial number.

Any ideas as to what the greek Beta character is on the top of the trigger guard? - some kind of import mark maybe?

Any ideas as to what the "8+82" marking means?

Also, is there a forum set up for people to "swap" sideplates to at least get them to match numerically, even though it would be highly unlikely that the swapped sideplates would be from the original pistol(s).

Thanks in advance for any advice you folks can give me!

The guy offering the pistol to me for sale is a friend, so I don't want to rip him off, but I don't want to over-pay either.

-mark-
mfdavid@comcast.net

Edward Tinker · 03-12-2003, 04:48 PM

Well, "G" dates are harder to find, therefor prices are higher. But without a matching side plate, I would deduct at least $300, as it gets into the "shooter" category.

Is the gun 95%, is that orginal or a reblue?

The 8,82 is the land to land, for the rifeling, how big the bore is, perfectly normal, my 1942 Banner shooter has 8,84.

Ed

Dwight Gruber · 03-12-2003, 10:07 PM

Mark,

Well done, and welcome to the Forum. This Luger is actually a military pistol, rather than commercial.

The cursive b is actually part of the serial number. Military Lugers were numbered 1 through 9999, and then the sequence started over again with the addition of a letter suffix. Although the actual production records have disappeared, the first observed G date is 930a (Still, Third Reich Lugers), so the gun you are considering is 13,000 or so into the production run.

The proper magazine for this Luger is nickel plated, crimped sheet-metal tube with an aluminum base.

If this Luger has its original finish (not a reblue), Ed's assessment is pretty much right on.

There's not really a "parts-swapping" forum, although people do sometimes advertise for a part with a specific serial number. Most collectors object to this practice, although it is one which occurs frequently.

There is another consideration here. Lugers are considerably hand-fitted guns, and most of the parts, even small ones, are serial numbered. This is to so that all the original parts stay together to ensure that the gun functions. You may indeed find a side plate with the same number as your gun, only to discover that it no longer functions with it in place.

Anyway, glad you made it here, and I hope you enjoy the Luger if you buy it. If you can post pictures it would be great, we all just love to see pictures of each other's Lugers.

--Dwight

saxman · 03-15-2003, 12:39 AM

An interesting question, 'force-matching', and one on which few agree. Suffice it to say that as Dwight stated, the practice is frowned upon by serious collectors, but gleefully enjoyed by people who just want to get rid of that glaring wrong number right there on the sideplate, the first thing you see on the pistol. It's fun looking for a 'matching' sideplate, and no harm is done until you, or someone else, perhaps not knowing about your successful search, sells the pistol as 'matching'. There are several alternatives: You could find a nice commercial sideplate without the number stamped on the flat; you could find an Erfurt sideplate with matching number, and no collector would mistake that for the original one; you could install a repro sideplate with no number; you could just leave it alone and enjoy it, which is what I would recommend. I had to find a sideplate for my DWM because the original, while functional, had been ruined by someone trying to remove pitting - it actually had holes in it. I found one with the matching number, but it was too dented and pitted to suit me, so I used an Erfurt plate with the wrong number but closely matching finish color and wear. The pistol looks great, and the plate snapped in like it had been made for it. I'd say, if your pistol looks good and the sideplate is functional, just go with it.

Silvereagle29 · 03-15-2003, 10:56 PM

Hi
Sounds like a great find, good luck. When the complete serial number appears, I will try and provide you some additional data. Would be rather difficult, you have already been introduced to a lot of information on your gun. Dwight, think 602a for the low G-Date recorded serial number and suffix. It had a DWM toggle, wish I would have purchased it when it was for sale many years ago in Castroville, CA. I also have recorded 933a and 935a.

03-12-2003, 04:42 PM	#1
Mark F. David New User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Delaware Posts: 1 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Info on Luger I may purchase?? I am looking to buy my first Luger, and looked at one today. Since there are so many variations, and I am completely ignorant of all the things that I should look for, I decided to ask you experts to check my research (most of it done on this website). Looking at the top of the pistol, there is a "G" near the barrel, a "93" (the last two digits of the s/n), then an "S/42" and another "93". Looking at the left side of the pistol, the s/n is listed as 4x93, and all of the visible numbers are matching "93"s except for the sideplate, which has a "34" on it. Looking at the right side of the pistol, there are three proof marks that match set 45 on the proof marks section of this website. Looking at the underside of the pistol, on the top of the triggerguard is a cursive "B", or Greek Beta. Also on the underside of the pistol, on the barrel is another full serial number, then closer to the trigger guard is "8+82" So, from research on the above listed markings, I have concluded that this pistol is a "G-date", commercial contract pistol made by Mauser in 1935 - Right??? The bore looks very good, and the overall condition of the pistol is, I would say, about 95%. All the numbers I saw matched except the sideplate, and of course, the magazine, which I understand hardly ever has a matching serial number. The blueing looks even, the "strawing" is faded but still yellow, and the wooden grips are in nice shape. My Bluebook (22nd edition) places the value at $900. I assume that would be for a pistol with all matching numbers except the magazine, though. Does the relatively low serial number add anything to the value? I guess my main question to you guys (other than confirmation that I did my research correctly), is how much should I deduct for the non-matching sideplate serial number. Any ideas as to what the greek Beta character is on the top of the trigger guard? - some kind of import mark maybe? Any ideas as to what the "8+82" marking means? Also, is there a forum set up for people to "swap" sideplates to at least get them to match numerically, even though it would be highly unlikely that the swapped sideplates would be from the original pistol(s). Thanks in advance for any advice you folks can give me! The guy offering the pistol to me for sale is a friend, so I don't want to rip him off, but I don't want to over-pay either. -mark- mfdavid@comcast.net

03-12-2003, 04:48 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,915 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,506 Times in 2,080 Posts	Well, "G" dates are harder to find, therefor prices are higher. But without a matching side plate, I would deduct at least $300, as it gets into the "shooter" category. Is the gun 95%, is that orginal or a reblue? The 8,82 is the land to land, for the rifeling, how big the bore is, perfectly normal, my 1942 Banner shooter has 8,84. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

03-15-2003, 12:39 AM	#4
saxman User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 301 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	An interesting question, 'force-matching', and one on which few agree. Suffice it to say that as Dwight stated, the practice is frowned upon by serious collectors, but gleefully enjoyed by people who just want to get rid of that glaring wrong number right there on the sideplate, the first thing you see on the pistol. It's fun looking for a 'matching' sideplate, and no harm is done until you, or someone else, perhaps not knowing about your successful search, sells the pistol as 'matching'. There are several alternatives: You could find a nice commercial sideplate without the number stamped on the flat; you could find an Erfurt sideplate with matching number, and no collector would mistake that for the original one; you could install a repro sideplate with no number; you could just leave it alone and enjoy it, which is what I would recommend. I had to find a sideplate for my DWM because the original, while functional, had been ruined by someone trying to remove pitting - it actually had holes in it. I found one with the matching number, but it was too dented and pitted to suit me, so I used an Erfurt plate with the wrong number but closely matching finish color and wear. The pistol looks great, and the plate snapped in like it had been made for it. I'd say, if your pistol looks good and the sideplate is functional, just go with it. __________________ You can lead 'em to the water, but you can't make 'em drink.

03-12-2003, 10:07 PM	#3
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,890 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,282 Times in 424 Posts	Mark, Well done, and welcome to the Forum. This Luger is actually a military pistol, rather than commercial. The cursive b is actually part of the serial number. Military Lugers were numbered 1 through 9999, and then the sequence started over again with the addition of a letter suffix. Although the actual production records have disappeared, the first observed G date is 930a (Still, Third Reich Lugers), so the gun you are considering is 13,000 or so into the production run. The proper magazine for this Luger is nickel plated, crimped sheet-metal tube with an aluminum base. If this Luger has its original finish (not a reblue), Ed's assessment is pretty much right on. There's not really a "parts-swapping" forum, although people do sometimes advertise for a part with a specific serial number. Most collectors object to this practice, although it is one which occurs frequently. There is another consideration here. Lugers are considerably hand-fitted guns, and most of the parts, even small ones, are serial numbered. This is to so that all the original parts stay together to ensure that the gun functions. You may indeed find a side plate with the same number as your gun, only to discover that it no longer functions with it in place. Anyway, glad you made it here, and I hope you enjoy the Luger if you buy it. If you can post pictures it would be great, we all just love to see pictures of each other's Lugers. --Dwight

03-15-2003, 10:56 PM	#5
Silvereagle29 User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Washington State Posts: 105 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	Hi Sounds like a great find, good luck. When the complete serial number appears, I will try and provide you some additional data. Would be rather difficult, you have already been introduced to a lot of information on your gun. Dwight, think 602a for the low G-Date recorded serial number and suffix. It had a DWM toggle, wish I would have purchased it when it was for sale many years ago in Castroville, CA. I also have recorded 933a and 935a.