Need help with a stuck firing pin......

DaveinTN · 09-18-2017, 12:55 AM

Any advice will be greatly appreciated!

While reassembling my 1923 shooter, I ran into a problem. After putting the firing pin, spring, and firing pin spring guide into the breech block, I wasn't able to depress and turn the spring guide with my finger so I used a screw driver instead.

I mistakenly pushed too hard and turned the screw driver. The result is that the firing pin spring guide is now jammed into the breech block and I have no way of removing it.

Photos are attached.

Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance for anyone's help!

RShaw · 09-18-2017, 02:24 AM

Wow!
I have never run into this problem but perhaps the following is an idea?
- put several drops of oil on top of the spring guide for lubrication.
- place the breech block, surrounded by a soft cloth, in a small vise, tighten down just enough to hold the part firmly,
- use needlenose players to grip the spring guide from the side slot and work it out.
Or place one plyer needle against the top of the firing pin, the other on the underside of the spring guide and open the plyers?
Just an idea.
What went in, should be able to come out....
Another idea: heat the breech block from the outside under very hot water- should cause it to expand, reducing the pressure on the jammed spring guide, then grip the guide from the side with plyers and extract?
Hope the side button on the guide is not damaged... or the inside of the breech block....

ithacaartist · 09-18-2017, 02:55 AM

It sounds as though the spring guide is just bound up in an area it wasn't particularly intended to navigate... The tab should be just fine because it is in its slot, we'll see if it is somehow buggered up after removal.

Wrap it in leather, hold in small vice grips, tap back end onto hard wood, just like one of those momentum bullet-pulling mallets. Do it in a setup which will conserve the guide and spring as they shoot out. Oil certainly won't hurt. Expanding the breech block with a little heat is a good idea, too. To maximize the effect, put the assembly into the deep freeze for a while before you heat the outside with a heat gun. Prying and tweezing would be an absolute last resort, but mitigated a bit by using non-marring tools or padding.

Eugen · 09-18-2017, 09:39 AM

Whoa?! Dave, you've received several possible solutions to your dilemma. I hope one of the approaches works for you. Please keep us posted regarding your results.

DonVoigt · 09-18-2017, 10:19 AM

Just use a punch to tap it to the rear, with a small hammer; should pop back easily.
Then clean up the inside with the correct size needle file, it probably has some burrs/wear that is causing it to be tight.

sheepherder · 09-18-2017, 10:30 AM

It sounds & looks like you missed the cut that the firing pin guide locks into. Went right past and now you have the guide bound up on its tab. Not good.

I would turn the guide with the screwdriver until the tab is lined up with the groove and then tap a thin rod down the firing pin hole, and try to hit the tip of the firing pin.

It would be fairly simple for a machinist friend to make up a drift that fits in the chamber and engages the firing pin hole in the breechblock. The drift would be steady in the chamber and would hit the firing pin tip-on and a squib rod down the barrel could tap the now-aligned guide back out.

I tend to think in specialized tools for repetitive repairs - a hammer and nail might work, and you only have to do it once.

DonVoigt · 09-18-2017, 01:05 PM

If you look at the middle picture, you can see the tab is not "engaged" at all.
Don't make a mountain from a mole hill, this is easy to get back in position!

sheepherder · 09-18-2017, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

If you look at the middle picture, you can see the tab is not "engaged" at all.
Don't make a mountain from a mole hill, this is easy to get back in position!

Right you are!

Then...What is holding it in???

DonVoigt · 09-18-2017, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheepherder

Right you are!

Then...What is holding it in???

Friction.

ithacaartist · 09-18-2017, 05:42 PM

Rich, read my post! If it pushed in with finger pressure, it should tap right out!

DaveinTN · 09-20-2017, 02:53 AM

I very much appreciate all the good suggestions. As I once heard, you can make something fool proof, but not damn fool proof.

I'm that damned fool..... The guide was pushed in with more than "finger" pressure.

After studying it for a long time with a 10x loupe, it appears the top of the guide is slightly off center with the edge being caught by some small protrusion inside the breech block.

I also looked at the Luger blueprints I purchased from John S. years ago to see what might be in the breech block that was keeping the spring guide from coming back out. If my breech block was made correctly, there shouldn't be anything restricting the guide rod.

On the top of the guide rod, the plans showed nothing out of the ordinary except that it is slightly oblong (see plans below).

I'm going try the hammer, punch, and soft jaw vise suggestion from the top to see if I can dislodge the rod. I've tried rapping the breech block against an oak plank, but the rod doesn't budge. Also, I don't want to hit the block too hard because I don't want to deform it.

I can use a drill press to put a small divot in the center of the screw slot on top of the rod. That will allow me to apply an oblique force to the top of the rod and possibly dislodge it from the block's grip. If successful, the divot won't affect the operation of the firing pin.

If all else fails, I may reach out to Tom Heller. I don't trust any of the local gunsmiths because they may not have very much experience working with a Luger.

As a last resort, I'll drill out the center of the guide rod and buy a replacement. The plans show that the diameter of the rod itself is only 4 mm. If I'm careful, I won't damage the firing pin or the spring.

The story continues.......

Dave in TN

Lugerdoc · 09-20-2017, 10:45 AM

Dave, I can't think of any procedures other than those previously mentioned, but would be willing to give it a try, if you care to send me your breech block assy. TH

DaveinTN · 10-15-2017, 07:35 PM

After much thought, I finally came up with a solution to the stuck firing pin spring guide rod.

In anticipation of the worst (having to drill out the stuck rod), I purchased two replacement rods. I even built a special jig to hold the breech block in a drill press vice without putting too much pressure on the machined sides. The last thing I wanted to do was distort the breech block. The rod was expendable, but not the block!

When I finally figured it out, the solution was surprisingly simple. After looking at the plans and carefully examining the disassembled breech block of my other Luger, I came to the conclusion that the rod was merely wedged in. It wasn't caught under a "lip" and the locking cam was nowhere near the locking slot in the block.

In the end, I simply placed the block vertically on the desk, with the firing pin pointed straight up and the end of the guide rod straight down. I then placed the tip of a needle nose plier on the upper edge (see diagram below) and gave the side of the plier a rap with a small hammer.

The rod jumped right out! Amen!

Under the loupe, everything looked none the worse for wear. But, before reassembling the pistol, I took a piece of 2000 grit emory paper and gently polished the sides of the rod where it had been held by the breech block. I didn't want another experience like this one!

Thanks to all for your good suggestions!

Dave in TN

RShaw · 10-15-2017, 11:56 PM

So good to hear that your solution worked

And without damage! Good idea!

DonVoigt · 10-16-2017, 12:07 AM

Dave,
sometimes the simple suggestion is the correct one, I'm happy it worked out without drama.

ithacaartist · 10-16-2017, 05:06 AM

Good job!

rhuff · 10-16-2017, 02:14 PM

Congrats, plus now you have two extra firing pin spring guide rods for any future needs, should they arise.

DaveinTN · 10-17-2017, 12:31 AM

After re-reading all the posts just a moment ago, it suddenly dawned on me that the inspiration for my needle nose plier solution actually began with RShaw's suggestion in his 9/18/2017 post.

".....Or place one plyer needle against the top of the firing pin, the other on the underside of the spring guide and open the plyers?
Just an idea.
What went in, should be able to come out...."

It sure did!

Many thanks RShaw for "planting the seed!"

Dave in TN

09-18-2017, 12:55 AM	#1
DaveinTN User Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tennessee Posts: 186 Thanks: 3 Thanked 15 Times in 11 Posts	Need help with a stuck firing pin...... Any advice will be greatly appreciated! While reassembling my 1923 shooter, I ran into a problem. After putting the firing pin, spring, and firing pin spring guide into the breech block, I wasn't able to depress and turn the spring guide with my finger so I used a screw driver instead. I mistakenly pushed too hard and turned the screw driver. The result is that the firing pin spring guide is now jammed into the breech block and I have no way of removing it. Photos are attached. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance for anyone's help! Attached Thumbnails

09-18-2017, 02:24 AM	#2
RShaw User Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Venlo, the Netherlands Posts: 350 Thanks: 160 Thanked 170 Times in 90 Posts	Wow! I have never run into this problem but perhaps the following is an idea? - put several drops of oil on top of the spring guide for lubrication. - place the breech block, surrounded by a soft cloth, in a small vise, tighten down just enough to hold the part firmly, - use needlenose players to grip the spring guide from the side slot and work it out. Or place one plyer needle against the top of the firing pin, the other on the underside of the spring guide and open the plyers? Just an idea. What went in, should be able to come out.... Another idea: heat the breech block from the outside under very hot water- should cause it to expand, reducing the pressure on the jammed spring guide, then grip the guide from the side with plyers and extract? Hope the side button on the guide is not damaged... or the inside of the breech block.... __________________ Enjoying any firearm is like staying happily married- take her out on a regular basis, treat her with respect and pay attention to proper maintenance. Looking for magazine no. 7097 Venlo, the Netherlands- RShaw

09-18-2017, 02:55 AM	#3
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,343 Thanks: 7,264 Thanked 2,576 Times in 1,364 Posts	It sounds as though the spring guide is just bound up in an area it wasn't particularly intended to navigate... The tab should be just fine because it is in its slot, we'll see if it is somehow buggered up after removal. Wrap it in leather, hold in small vice grips, tap back end onto hard wood, just like one of those momentum bullet-pulling mallets. Do it in a setup which will conserve the guide and spring as they shoot out. Oil certainly won't hurt. Expanding the breech block with a little heat is a good idea, too. To maximize the effect, put the assembly into the deep freeze for a while before you heat the outside with a heat gun. Prying and tweezing would be an absolute last resort, but mitigated a bit by using non-marring tools or padding. __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894

09-18-2017, 09:39 AM	#4
Eugen User Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Newburgh,IN Posts: 790 Thanks: 393 Thanked 631 Times in 334 Posts	Whoa?! Dave, you've received several possible solutions to your dilemma. I hope one of the approaches works for you. Please keep us posted regarding your results. __________________ “God created war so that Americans would learn geography.” ― Mark Twain

09-18-2017, 10:19 AM	#5
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,441 Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts	Just use a punch to tap it to the rear, with a small hammer; should pop back easily. Then clean up the inside with the correct size needle file, it probably has some burrs/wear that is causing it to be tight. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

09-18-2017, 10:30 AM	#6
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,182 Thanks: 1,400 Thanked 4,442 Times in 2,330 Posts	It sounds & looks like you missed the cut that the firing pin guide locks into. Went right past and now you have the guide bound up on its tab. Not good. I would turn the guide with the screwdriver until the tab is lined up with the groove and then tap a thin rod down the firing pin hole, and try to hit the tip of the firing pin. It would be fairly simple for a machinist friend to make up a drift that fits in the chamber and engages the firing pin hole in the breechblock. The drift would be steady in the chamber and would hit the firing pin tip-on and a squib rod down the barrel could tap the now-aligned guide back out. I tend to think in specialized tools for repetitive repairs - a hammer and nail might work, and you only have to do it once. __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

09-18-2017, 01:05 PM	#7
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,441 Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts	If you look at the middle picture, you can see the tab is not "engaged" at all. Don't make a mountain from a mole hill, this is easy to get back in position! __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

09-18-2017, 05:42 PM	#10
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,343 Thanks: 7,264 Thanked 2,576 Times in 1,364 Posts	Rich, read my post! If it pushed in with finger pressure, it should tap right out! __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894

09-20-2017, 02:53 AM	#11
DaveinTN User Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tennessee Posts: 186 Thanks: 3 Thanked 15 Times in 11 Posts	I very much appreciate all the good suggestions. As I once heard, you can make something fool proof, but not damn fool proof. I'm that damned fool..... The guide was pushed in with more than "finger" pressure. After studying it for a long time with a 10x loupe, it appears the top of the guide is slightly off center with the edge being caught by some small protrusion inside the breech block. I also looked at the Luger blueprints I purchased from John S. years ago to see what might be in the breech block that was keeping the spring guide from coming back out. If my breech block was made correctly, there shouldn't be anything restricting the guide rod. On the top of the guide rod, the plans showed nothing out of the ordinary except that it is slightly oblong (see plans below). I'm going try the hammer, punch, and soft jaw vise suggestion from the top to see if I can dislodge the rod. I've tried rapping the breech block against an oak plank, but the rod doesn't budge. Also, I don't want to hit the block too hard because I don't want to deform it. I can use a drill press to put a small divot in the center of the screw slot on top of the rod. That will allow me to apply an oblique force to the top of the rod and possibly dislodge it from the block's grip. If successful, the divot won't affect the operation of the firing pin. If all else fails, I may reach out to Tom Heller. I don't trust any of the local gunsmiths because they may not have very much experience working with a Luger. As a last resort, I'll drill out the center of the guide rod and buy a replacement. The plans show that the diameter of the rod itself is only 4 mm. If I'm careful, I won't damage the firing pin or the spring. The story continues....... Dave in TN Attached Thumbnails

09-20-2017, 10:45 AM	#12
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Dave, I can't think of any procedures other than those previously mentioned, but would be willing to give it a try, if you care to send me your breech block assy. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

10-15-2017, 07:35 PM	#13
DaveinTN User Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tennessee Posts: 186 Thanks: 3 Thanked 15 Times in 11 Posts	A Happy Ending! After much thought, I finally came up with a solution to the stuck firing pin spring guide rod. In anticipation of the worst (having to drill out the stuck rod), I purchased two replacement rods. I even built a special jig to hold the breech block in a drill press vice without putting too much pressure on the machined sides. The last thing I wanted to do was distort the breech block. The rod was expendable, but not the block! When I finally figured it out, the solution was surprisingly simple. After looking at the plans and carefully examining the disassembled breech block of my other Luger, I came to the conclusion that the rod was merely wedged in. It wasn't caught under a "lip" and the locking cam was nowhere near the locking slot in the block. In the end, I simply placed the block vertically on the desk, with the firing pin pointed straight up and the end of the guide rod straight down. I then placed the tip of a needle nose plier on the upper edge (see diagram below) and gave the side of the plier a rap with a small hammer. The rod jumped right out! Amen! Under the loupe, everything looked none the worse for wear. But, before reassembling the pistol, I took a piece of 2000 grit emory paper and gently polished the sides of the rod where it had been held by the breech block. I didn't want another experience like this one! Thanks to all for your good suggestions! Dave in TN Attached Thumbnails

10-15-2017, 11:56 PM	#14
RShaw User Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Venlo, the Netherlands Posts: 350 Thanks: 160 Thanked 170 Times in 90 Posts	So good to hear that your solution worked And without damage! Good idea!

10-16-2017, 12:07 AM	#15
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,441 Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts	Dave, sometimes the simple suggestion is the correct one, I'm happy it worked out without drama. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

10-16-2017, 05:06 AM	#16
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,343 Thanks: 7,264 Thanked 2,576 Times in 1,364 Posts	Good job! __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894

10-16-2017, 02:14 PM	#17
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,291 Thanks: 2,709 Thanked 972 Times in 717 Posts	Congrats, plus now you have two extra firing pin spring guide rods for any future needs, should they arise. __________________ Need DWM breechblock #21

10-17-2017, 12:31 AM	#18
DaveinTN User Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tennessee Posts: 186 Thanks: 3 Thanked 15 Times in 11 Posts	Epilogue..... After re-reading all the posts just a moment ago, it suddenly dawned on me that the inspiration for my needle nose plier solution actually began with RShaw's suggestion in his 9/18/2017 post. ".....Or place one plyer needle against the top of the firing pin, the other on the underside of the spring guide and open the plyers? Just an idea. What went in, should be able to come out...." It sure did! Many thanks RShaw for "planting the seed!" Dave in TN