Portuguese M943

Marvin · 11-23-2002, 07:52 AM

I recently purchased a Portuguese M943 rig in approx. 97% condition and I have a few questions about the pistol. This model is not one where a lot of information is available so I need some clarification. I do not have any Luger reference books with me, so whatever I say here is from memory.

I remember reading that the Portuguese Lugers were all in the "m" suffix block per Walters in his book "Luger". I have also read that the suffix went from the "m" suffix block into the "n" block. Which is correct? Does anyone know the total number of pistols provided to Portugal? I have always assumed that Portugal did the phosphate finish during a refurbishing campain; anyone know more about this, were thsy all phoshate finished?

The pistol I have is S/N 864 n, phosphate finished, black plastic (blackwidow) grips, unumbered "fxo" aluminum bottom mags ( one is phosphate and the spare is blued), the tool is phosphate finished and the cleaning rod is in the white. The holster is the standard 1943 pattern. All the stamps are standard E/135 and E/Swastika, P.08 on frame, and waffenamt & test proof on barrel. All is proper with the stmaps. Any information is appreciated.

Marvin <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" />

Frank · 11-23-2002, 09:22 AM

Hi Marvin,

After the conversion of the Mauser production from Lugers to P.38s in 1942, Mauser sold the remaining unwanted Lugers to both Portugal and Bulgaria.

As to the quantity and serial number range, Still's Third Reich shows the Portuguese Range as 149m to 5322m and the Bulgarian range as 5322m to 2197n. Walter provides about the same quantities as 4000 to Portugal and 5600 to Bulgaria.

Regarding the phosphate finish, I have seen both blue and phosphate in these ranges, but the majority of them (that I have seen) were phosphated.

<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

Marvin · 11-23-2002, 12:34 PM

Frank,

Thanks for the information. After taking a much closer look at the "m", and comparing it with the two sheets on the Forum, I think it is an incomplete "m". The little "hook" at the top is not stamped clearly. If I get a chance, I will try to post a photo of the suffix letter.

marvin

Marvin · 11-23-2002, 01:58 PM

OK, here is a try at posting the Suffix Letter for the Portuguese Luger. It is not as focused as I would like, but I only had one try. Here goes.

Marvin

Thor · 11-23-2002, 02:22 PM

looks like an incomplete "m" to me!

Lugerdoc · 11-24-2002, 08:43 AM

I agree, definately an "m" suffix. Tom H.

Marvin · 11-24-2002, 09:16 AM

Thanks Tom & Ted for the information. I did look very close and there appears to be a remnant of the top hook of the "m" before it was phosphate finished.

Another question, In Jan Still's book, "Third Reich Lugers", and Walter's book "Luger", they state that the serial numbers began at 865 m. Since mine is 864 m, this would make it one of the earliest for the contract. Does anyone else have any info on the serial numbers?

Marvin

Frank · 11-24-2002, 11:05 AM

Marvin, Still's Book seems to indicate the serial number range started with 149m or so. Read the next paragraph down from the Datig and Kornmeyer References on page 247. Still thinks the range is 149m to 5322m (approximately)

<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

Marvin · 11-24-2002, 02:13 PM

Frank,

Thanks for this information. I am having to do this from memory as I do not have access to my books today, but tomorrow evening I will! I will read the section you refer to. Unfortunantly there seems to be little history on these pistols.

Marvin

11-23-2002, 07:52 AM	#1
Marvin User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Upstate S.C. Posts: 1,132 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Portuguese M943 I recently purchased a Portuguese M943 rig in approx. 97% condition and I have a few questions about the pistol. This model is not one where a lot of information is available so I need some clarification. I do not have any Luger reference books with me, so whatever I say here is from memory. I remember reading that the Portuguese Lugers were all in the "m" suffix block per Walters in his book "Luger". I have also read that the suffix went from the "m" suffix block into the "n" block. Which is correct? Does anyone know the total number of pistols provided to Portugal? I have always assumed that Portugal did the phosphate finish during a refurbishing campain; anyone know more about this, were thsy all phoshate finished? The pistol I have is S/N 864 n, phosphate finished, black plastic (blackwidow) grips, unumbered "fxo" aluminum bottom mags ( one is phosphate and the spare is blued), the tool is phosphate finished and the cleaning rod is in the white. The holster is the standard 1943 pattern. All the stamps are standard E/135 and E/Swastika, P.08 on frame, and waffenamt & test proof on barrel. All is proper with the stmaps. Any information is appreciated. Marvin <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" />

11-23-2002, 02:22 PM	#5
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	looks like an incomplete "m" to me! __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

11-24-2002, 08:43 AM	#6
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	I agree, definately an "m" suffix. Tom H. __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

11-23-2002, 09:22 AM	#2
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 163 Times in 87 Posts	Hi Marvin, After the conversion of the Mauser production from Lugers to P.38s in 1942, Mauser sold the remaining unwanted Lugers to both Portugal and Bulgaria. As to the quantity and serial number range, Still's Third Reich shows the Portuguese Range as 149m to 5322m and the Bulgarian range as 5322m to 2197n. Walter provides about the same quantities as 4000 to Portugal and 5600 to Bulgaria. Regarding the phosphate finish, I have seen both blue and phosphate in these ranges, but the majority of them (that I have seen) were phosphated. <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

11-23-2002, 12:34 PM	#3
Marvin User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Upstate S.C. Posts: 1,132 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Frank, Thanks for the information. After taking a much closer look at the "m", and comparing it with the two sheets on the Forum, I think it is an incomplete "m". The little "hook" at the top is not stamped clearly. If I get a chance, I will try to post a photo of the suffix letter. marvin

11-23-2002, 01:58 PM	#4
Marvin User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Upstate S.C. Posts: 1,132 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	OK, here is a try at posting the Suffix Letter for the Portuguese Luger. It is not as focused as I would like, but I only had one try. Here goes. Marvin

11-24-2002, 09:16 AM	#7
Marvin User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Upstate S.C. Posts: 1,132 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks Tom & Ted for the information. I did look very close and there appears to be a remnant of the top hook of the "m" before it was phosphate finished. Another question, In Jan Still's book, "Third Reich Lugers", and Walter's book "Luger", they state that the serial numbers began at 865 m. Since mine is 864 m, this would make it one of the earliest for the contract. Does anyone else have any info on the serial numbers? Marvin

11-24-2002, 11:05 AM	#8
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 163 Times in 87 Posts	Marvin, Still's Book seems to indicate the serial number range started with 149m or so. Read the next paragraph down from the Datig and Kornmeyer References on page 247. Still thinks the range is 149m to 5322m (approximately) <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

11-24-2002, 02:13 PM	#9
Marvin User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Upstate S.C. Posts: 1,132 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Frank, Thanks for this information. I am having to do this from memory as I do not have access to my books today, but tomorrow evening I will! I will read the section you refer to. Unfortunantly there seems to be little history on these pistols. Marvin