Luger Pics, thoughts, discussion, enjoyment

[Nubbynub]

Hello, newbie here! Was on another forum posting about my luger and they advised I post with you guys for better, more accurate, and more in-depth responses. Your guy's site is amazing! I've already answered a few questions just from this sites archive. A few still remain, was hoping to get your thoughts on it. Thank you in advance!

Original post on calguns.net click the following title to see full post and responses. Luger Pics: How to Identify, Restore, Date, Shoot.


Here's the posting for your review/discussion/enjoyment

Hi there peoples! I have a luger that I'd like to get all your thoughts on. I've been researching it for awhile and it's starting to make my head spin. Far as I've gathered I believe this is a pre 1912 Commercial DWM Luger. But still can't figure out a few mysteries about it. So I wanted to post a bunch of pictures for enjoyment and possible discussion.

Is it possible to get a more accurate date? Believe 1906
What does the Eagle mean for the gun on the top? American/England import?
What does the 17228 stand for on the barrel? 7.65 mm
What does the B with the circle around it on the barrel stand for? Brazilian mark I think
What does the "3" directly in front of the trigger stand for?????
What would I use and how would I safely clean/restore this piece of history? Will be doing as little as possible.
Is there a way to find out or test if this is safe to shoot without harming myself or the gun? Will not be shooting this.

I would love to have this cleaned up and restored as much as possible so I can display it in my office and maybe one day give it to my kids. Here are some pics and a link to the full blown pics for review. Will probably only wipe it down with oil and put it away.
Full Sized Zoomable Luger Pics

[Nubbynub]

More Pics

[DonVoigt]

Hi, and welcome.

You can get started on your questions and a lot more by reading here:
http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=13121

A lot of effort went into these frequently asked questions and they will give you a lot of background info.

Don't do anything to clean or restore until you really understand the ins and outs of luger collecting.

And please upload your pictures to the server here, those links to outside hosts will eventually disappear.

[Edward Tinker]

as Don said above, but I read your posting on calguns (not a member) and apologize for your difficulty on coming on-board.

anyway, let me throw out some info

Original lugers were in the 1900 (dished toggles) design, then went to the 1906 design (military did not want the grip safety, so it went away, along with changing them to 9mm)

* it is a 1906 'model' - I think the sn was 40K? - will go look, probably 1910, 1911 - Dwight has a better idea
*Your is a 7.65mm (30 Luger) - magazines will work for the guns in either caliber
*The American eagle (AE) was a marketing ploy for the USA, although the importer (Tauscher in New York) imported them for Canada and for Mexico also, but without the AE -Same, simply the eagle, otherwise no change from a non-eagle
*the bore-to-bore marking is like you said; 171xxx and actually isn't bore to bore, for the 30 lugr it was how many to a pound, like a black powder (I will have to look that one up in the FAQ)
* B WAS for Brazil, it was an over-run of barrels and they simply used them - no other reason than using extra parts from another contract
*numbers covered up by parts are referred to as 'worker marks' and mean nothing except to show who was working on it or had worked on it
*Normal cleaning such as oil and 0000 steel or bronze wool work great, never ever over clean. Less is best, so a rag and oil
*this is a commercial version, and the last two of the serial number are on the bottoms or not on parts. Military versions the sn are in the open, we call that commercial or hidden serial numbers.
*see the BUG proof markings - that is simply the inspector markings - each acceptance - proof (totally different things) - so someone assigned the letter B accepted it as good to part at that stage - then U - although maybe not in that order, the final FIRING proof is the PROOF EAGLE and showwed it passed the test firing of an over-proof load and was good to go.
* NOTE the GERMANY stamping -this is technically an EXPORT stamping and not what many folks call an import stamp, it was required that items be stamped as country of origin.
--do not dismantle more than a basic cleaning IMHO

hope that helped, that is from the top of my head...

Welcome to the Forum!!

[Eugen]

Nubbynub, welcome to the forum. I am new to Luger ownership as well. You came to the right place.

As mentioned above read the FAQ section as there is a wealth of info there. The name should be changed from FAQ to ELFI (Essential Luger Facts and Information). Yes, I like ELFI better. It even sounds cool.

What magazines came with the gun? Pics of the mags, particularly the bottoms will be helpful.

I am sure you will enjoy your new to you Luger very much. This hobby is addicting.

[mrerick]

Hello, and welcome to the forum.

As the others have said, anything you do beyond simple cleaning to "improve" your new Luger will destroy it's collector value and financial value as well.

In answer to your specific questions:

Is it possible to get a more accurate date? Believe 1906

AS Ed and Don mentioned, this is a 1906 pattern Luger. I don't know of available production records from DWM that would nail down exactly when it was made. By 1918 they had reached serial numbers in the 82000 range.


What does the Eagle mean for the gun on the top? American/England import?

As mentioned, this model is an "American Eagle" model that was made for export to the USA.

What does the 17228 stand for on the barrel? 7.65 mm

As mentioned, it represents the barrel caliber. You are correct.


What does the B with the circle around it on the barrel stand for? Brazilian mark I think

I also go with Ed's explanation on this as a barrel for the Brazilian Lugers that went into American Eagle production instead. I was also thinking Boehler steel, but those are marked "Bo."...


What does the "3" directly in front of the trigger stand for?????

It does look like a worker mark, but it would be very unusual for them to be placed in a visible location. I don't have a better explanation.


What would I use and how would I safely clean/restore this piece of history? Will be doing as little as possible.

Well oiled "0000" steel wool on an oiled blued steel surface to remove active surface rust. Basically clean it with Hoppes No. 8, oil it properly and that's it.


Is there a way to find out or test if this is safe to shoot without harming myself or the gun? Will not be shooting this.

I personally would not shoot a historic and collectible firearm. The way to find out is to have it gone over by someone familiar with Lugers, and then load it and fire it. Be prepared for parts that might break, ending it's history as an all matching gun. Of course, there are those that must shoot everything they own. To each their own.

[4 Scale]

Here is a thread about another American Eagle, very close to yours in serial number (less than 500 off) and appears to be marked exactly the same as yours, including the small circle B.

http://luger.gunboards.com/showthrea...wbie-education

Several experienced collectors were kind enough to explain markings, manufacture date etc., their comments would apply to yours as well.

[Nubbynub]

Wow, you guys rock! Thank you soo much for the warm welcome. Checked out the ELFI (Totally right Eugene!!!) Another wealth of information! Just decided that I will take the gun to my favorite local gunsmith and ask if he wouldn't mind cleaning it by the above methods for semi-long storage. I'll get pics of the magazines up soon, but none had any numbers or markings so I thought they might not be special. 4 Scale our guns could've been luger buddies!!! Thank you soo much for sharing the link about your gun!

[Dwight Gruber]

"Is it possible to get a more accurate date?"

This Luger is properly designated New Model Parabellum, of the standard commercial Parabellum category; this model began production in 1906. It is the American Eagle variation.

The Pistole 1908 (P08) commercial model began production in 1909, serial number approximately sn 39063. Production of the commercial P08 is intermixed with the New Model Parabellum, which ceased production in 1913. The DWM commercial proof mark changed from the crown/B,U,G suite of markings to the lazy crown/N marking in 1912,as early as sn 51000. This dates your Luger between 1909 and 1912, there is not a way to pin it down further.

"What does the B with the circle around it on the barrel stand for?"

Conventional Wisdom ascribes the encircled-B on the barrel as leftover or overrun barrels accepted for the Brazilian Luger military contract. Brazilian Lugers do not actually have this stamping on their barrels which leaves this as unconfirmed speculation, subject to future factual discovery.

"What does the "3" directly in front of the trigger stand for?????"

This is not a known standard marking on this (or any) model Luger pistol. Any attempt at explanation would be sheer guesswork.

--Dwight

[Lugerdoc]

I agree with most of the above, except the crown over B, U & G are PROOF markings, not inspector markings. The B in a circle on the barrel, could very well be an inspector's mark, as DWM often recycled dies previous used on contract pistols, to be later used by inspectors. 'Waste not, want not". TH

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

And please upload your pictures to the server here, those links to outside hosts will eventually disappear.

+ 1

Originally Posted by John Sabato

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE
Attach your photos directly to your post by using the "Go Advance" button to make your post entry. Then there is a "manage attachments" button to allow you to post your photos.

Photos that are hosted elsewhere, often disappear when the hosting website reorganizes its holdings, or goes out of business.

In addition, many of the more knowledgeable people on this forum are unable to see your photos posted elsewhere because they access the forum from their place of employment where internet web storage sites are filtered or prohibited. If they can't see your photos, they can't offer comments or advice.

Thanks, and welcome to the Lugerforum.

And here is why...

[Nubbynub]

Good to go I think, thank you all for the great posts! It's nice to know soo much about my families heirlooms.
-JJS