Introduction of black grip plates?

[Balder]

Gentlemen,

I'm having a discussion about when the black bakelite grip plates were introduced. I always thought it to be rather late in 1941, but there is a claim that some Lugers made in 1940 also had them.

Anyone?

Balder

[guns3545]

Originally Posted by Balder

Gentlemen,

I'm having a discussion about when the black bakelite grip plates were introduced. I always thought it to be rather late in 1941, but there is a claim that some Lugers made in 1940 also had them.

Anyone?

Balder

John,

Good question.

There were two manufacturers of the P.08 in WWII. Mauser and Krieghoff.

Krieghoff first introduced Bakelite grip panels in 1936. Brown Bakelite with 2 types of checkering. The black Bakelite panels were used in the 1940 and subsequent production.

Mauser, on the other hand, was still delivering Walnut grip panels well into 1942. Brown Bakelite panels are found on some 1940 guns. These panels were procured by Mauser from Krieghoff when HK's initial contract for 10,000 guns had been completed. In mid-1941, or so, we see Black Bakelite panels sporadically being used, interspersed with Walnut panels. This continued into 1942.

Now it is difficult to say exactly when the switch over, if indeed, there actually was a switch over, took place. Walnut panels are notorious for their fragility. Therefore how many of the 1941/2 guns observed today actually left the factory with Bakelite grips remains a question as they were used as field replacements.

Remember there was no good reason for Mauser to use Bakelite grips which they had to buy, when they had a good supply of Walnut from off cuts of the 1000s of rifle stocks they were producing. On the other hand, Mauser had no choice about switching to the Haenel magazine as the Heereswaffenamt ordered them to do so. No such order was made with respect to grip panels. Walnut or Bakelite were acceptable.

Hope this helps. Sorry for the number of words. As I said, this is a good question.

John

[Balder]

Thanks John, you confirm my beliefs in an excellent way

Balder

[tharpo]

There is a study on black grips on Jan Still's Forum.
http://luger.gunboards.com/showthrea...S-DATA-REQUEST

[guns3545]

Originally Posted by tharpo

There is a study on black grips on Jan Still's Forum.
http://luger.gunboards.com/showthrea...S-DATA-REQUEST

The study is excellent, and I even participated in it.

In fact, Dave Molchen did an excellent job here and is to be congratulated. In fact, there is probably enough evidence to say that HK did sell additional grip panels to Mauser, made of Black Bakelite.

Thus if you see a 1940 42, with Black Bakelite panels and they are of the HK type, it is probably safe to say that they are original to the gun.

This only goes to prove that knowledge of the Luger is a continuing pursuit. Reference books while an excellent source of information represent a point in time view whereas new data and the knowledge it produces is being created continuously.

That is why, this and other Forums are important to collecting and collectors. The knowledge here flows like a fountain. All we need to do is contribute to its flow when we can, and drink from it to get knowledge that we need

John