Public Sale of Surplus U.S. Army 1911s

Curly1 · 11-26-2015, 12:14 PM

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...g-day-miracle/

tudorbug · 11-26-2015, 12:20 PM

Hardly seems it could be true. It is good news if it is.

David

DavidJayUden · 11-26-2015, 12:54 PM

It is an interesting development. Wonder of BHO will start boasting that he is the strong 2nd Amendment president?
Also I'm curious to see just how long it takes to see one in my hand, and just how many are really available for sales to the public?
dju

rhuff · 11-26-2015, 01:48 PM

I never though that the Prez would EVER sign this bill into law. There must have been other things in the bill that he wanted more. Anyway, there will be a "herd" of military 1911s available to the right people. I am pretty sure that John Q. Public will not be able to purchase these.....only CMP folks. I wonder what will happen to the market/price of those currently owned? I guess a lot depends on what condition these 1911s are in.

Edward Tinker · 11-26-2015, 01:57 PM

I think it will affect them about as much as Garands and Carbines - in other words, 'original' ones will rise in value while anything messed with will be shooter price.

Rumour has it that they will come out in two years (on the CMP forums) but I am not sure where that 2 yr came from, as 2 yrs ago the CMP Director would have released some if he could.

The paperwork originally said 10k each year. If true, then IMHO, it would not surprise me to see some released to CMP members before Jan 1st 2017, but thats just a guess and I have not read the final version.

Since this opens up calibers besides rifle and 22 LR, I imagine it could open up 9mm, 38 Special and 45 acp ammo being released, if it hasn't been destroyed

DavidJayUden · 11-26-2015, 02:17 PM

It should stir interest in the CMP program and get some shooters out to a CMP affiliated club to shoot in a match, thereby positioning them for future sales, 1911 or otherwise.
dju

jonnyc · 11-26-2015, 02:19 PM

"John Q. Public" is "CMP folks".
It sure doesn't take much to be able to order directly from the CMP (CIVILIAN Marksmanship Program).

DavidJayUden · 11-26-2015, 02:40 PM

You are correct. I have bought a few M1's from them in the past, and as I recall you have to have shot in one CMP Match, provide ID, a notarized release form, send your money, and presto, an M1 shows up on your porch. And it's always fun to open it up to see how the luck of the draw went.
dju

conehammer · 12-06-2015, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidJayUden

You are correct. I have bought a few M1's from them in the past, and as I recall you have to have shot in one CMP Match, provide ID, a notarized release form, send your money, and presto, an M1 shows up on your porch. And it's always fun to open it up to see how the luck of the draw went.
dju

In Kalifornia I'll bet we won't be eligable, something too good to be true here usually is...

Jerry

DavidJayUden · 12-06-2015, 09:31 PM

I'm betting that you will at least have to go thru a listed FFL.
dju

alvin · 12-06-2015, 09:59 PM

I watched RIAC auction, looks like the price is not affected yet...

mrerick · 12-07-2015, 09:55 AM

Many states have more restrictive laws concerning handguns. One of the "process" issues with these sales will be working out individual solutions for each state.

In my state, you have to have a CCH or individually issued Pistol Permit to buy a handgun. Some states require handgun transfer through a FFL.

i expect that having a C&R FFL would make the transfer the easiest, since you could already transfer interstate. In my state if you have a C&R FFL and a CCH you can take interstate handgun deliveries without additional permits or paperwork.

We are trying to eliminate the individual purchase pistol permits here. They are a holdover from the old anti-black Jim Crow laws. Up until this month, when our H562 bill made the change, the sheriff permits were "may issue". The law change made them "shall issue"...

Marc

Arizona Slim · 12-07-2015, 02:27 PM

Received a letter from the IL. Rifle Association Saturday concerning this news and it said that as they were a part of the Civilian Marksmanship Program, membership in their organization would automatically qualify a potential buyer to purchase one of these pistols when they become available, sure do hope that's right.

Lon

GreyHammer · 12-13-2015, 09:28 AM

Well, one thing on the plus side of handgun permits in North Carolina, I stops shill buyers in their tracks. This is how many handguns fall into the illegal market in other states. If you are a citizen with CCH, there is no permit required.

mrerick · 12-13-2015, 09:53 AM

The North Carolina Pistol Permit system is a hold-over "may issue" system from the old Jim Crow anti-black laws. It was used for decades to prohibit blacks from purchasing and possessing handguns in the state.

it's administered by our all powerful County Sheriffs (all 100 of them, in 100 different ways). Until we got H.562 passed this year, it was still a "may issue" system. Now it's finally "shall issue". We tried to get rid of the program altogether, but Bloomberg spent $350,000 on TV advertising and got an amendment passed to keep the system in place. He said we were trying to eliminate background checks... Lies...

In effect, the costly system (your $5 permit fee costs $75 to process times hundreds of thousands permits per year) puts a 5 year delay between passing a background check (which gets you a paper certificate for buying one handgun within 5 years) and actually acquiring the handgun (without a second background check required). This has allowed over 5,300 permits to remain in the hands of prohibited persons (according to a 2014 audit by the courts).

It also requires the seller to obtain the buyer's permit in a private transaction. It's unlikely that criminals transferring stolen guns, or straw purchasers bother to get their buyer's permit.

- - - -

There are multiple qualifiers for buying guns from the CMP.

One of them is that you be a member of a CMP affiliated club.

The rest are listed here:

https://thecmp.org/cmp_sales/rifle_s...-requirements/

Sergio Natali · 12-15-2015, 11:40 AM

Found this in another Forum, although you all surely know more than me about it:

Possible pricing for CMP 1911 pistols,

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...-pistols-cost/

Regards.

Mac Cat · 12-15-2015, 12:13 PM

Sounds/reads like a Chinese fire drill, to me.
It is a LOT of guns to handle, as well, so I get there is some overhead cost.

How can you command RETAIL prices, for guns that one probably can't examine or choose.

I wondered if anyone will be test firing them, first ?
You know, the way the German's proofed re-worked weapons.

CAP Black · 12-15-2015, 09:43 PM

My understanding is that they evaluate the weapons and put them is classes or grades and sell them accordingly. They are gone over rather extensively. You can purchase the quality that you desire. I have an M1 Garand and it is just as they described it and shoots extremely well as I was lead to expect.
Thanks
Jack

Sergio Natali · 12-16-2015, 05:10 AM

Again from another forum on the same topic and relevant prices. somebody wrote:
QUOTE If a supply of 1000 or more pistols surfaces and they auction them as they have been doing with the carbines, I would expect that initially the prices will be bid high but will eventually level off. Overall, if this supply materializes, prices will generally fall on M1911s and M1911A1s. So, where a nice rebuild today might get $1050, it might be $950 while those pistols are on the market. Once this release is all sold, prices will return and go higher. One thing that is not going to happen - getting a nice Singer for $500. They know what values are and may be consulting with known authorities on the 1911 to determine reasonable starting prices. You'll notice they don't give away M1 Carbines and M1 Rifles. UNQUOTE

We'll soon se what the'll do with all those guns.

mrerick · 12-16-2015, 12:14 PM

I have visited the CMP facility in Port Clinton, Ohio (which includes the retail store, and their offices for managing competition). It's very well run.

I have never been to Anniston, Alabama but understand that they also have warehouse facilities there.

They are very well setup to store a volume of incoming items, and then evaluate, restore/repair and then sell them at a relatively slow pace - which they manage.

We are coming toward the end of the M1 Garand stocks transferred by the US Government to the CMP so I expect that space is opening up in the warehouses, and the armorers that have worked on M1 Garands and Carbines are ready for their next specialization.

When the CMP grades firearms, they are reasonably conservative. I have bought "Field Grade" guns that I couldn't tell from the next higher "Service Grade". When I got a M1 Carbine (Service Grade) that was inaccurate - probably due to a barrel deformation - they replaced it without any problem.

I think that they may tend to extend that level of support more easily for the higher grade guns.

I hope that they do proceed reasonably quickly to making graded pistols available.

Needless to day, when they become available these pistols will sell quickly - and take some time to ship as the CMP wades through the avalanche of orders...

Marc

11-26-2015, 12:14 PM	#1
Curly1 User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Upstate New York Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 116 Thanked 708 Times in 369 Posts	Public Sale of Surplus U.S. Army 1911s http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...g-day-miracle/ __________________ Laugh hard and often. Gary

12-07-2015, 09:55 AM	#12
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,907 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,108 Times in 1,509 Posts	Many states have more restrictive laws concerning handguns. One of the "process" issues with these sales will be working out individual solutions for each state. In my state, you have to have a CCH or individually issued Pistol Permit to buy a handgun. Some states require handgun transfer through a FFL. i expect that having a C&R FFL would make the transfer the easiest, since you could already transfer interstate. In my state if you have a C&R FFL and a CCH you can take interstate handgun deliveries without additional permits or paperwork. We are trying to eliminate the individual purchase pistol permits here. They are a holdover from the old anti-black Jim Crow laws. Up until this month, when our H562 bill made the change, the sheriff permits were "may issue". The law change made them "shall issue"... Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

12-13-2015, 09:53 AM	#15
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,907 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,108 Times in 1,509 Posts	The North Carolina Pistol Permit system is a hold-over "may issue" system from the old Jim Crow anti-black laws. It was used for decades to prohibit blacks from purchasing and possessing handguns in the state. it's administered by our all powerful County Sheriffs (all 100 of them, in 100 different ways). Until we got H.562 passed this year, it was still a "may issue" system. Now it's finally "shall issue". We tried to get rid of the program altogether, but Bloomberg spent $350,000 on TV advertising and got an amendment passed to keep the system in place. He said we were trying to eliminate background checks... Lies... In effect, the costly system (your $5 permit fee costs $75 to process times hundreds of thousands permits per year) puts a 5 year delay between passing a background check (which gets you a paper certificate for buying one handgun within 5 years) and actually acquiring the handgun (without a second background check required). This has allowed over 5,300 permits to remain in the hands of prohibited persons (according to a 2014 audit by the courts). It also requires the seller to obtain the buyer's permit in a private transaction. It's unlikely that criminals transferring stolen guns, or straw purchasers bother to get their buyer's permit. - - - - There are multiple qualifiers for buying guns from the CMP. One of them is that you be a member of a CMP affiliated club. The rest are listed here: https://thecmp.org/cmp_sales/rifle_s...-requirements/ __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

12-15-2015, 11:40 AM	#16
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	Found this in another Forum, although you all surely know more than me about it: Possible pricing for CMP 1911 pistols, http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...-pistols-cost/ Regards. __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

12-16-2015, 05:10 AM	#19
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	Again from another forum on the same topic and relevant prices. somebody wrote: QUOTE If a supply of 1000 or more pistols surfaces and they auction them as they have been doing with the carbines, I would expect that initially the prices will be bid high but will eventually level off. Overall, if this supply materializes, prices will generally fall on M1911s and M1911A1s. So, where a nice rebuild today might get $1050, it might be $950 while those pistols are on the market. Once this release is all sold, prices will return and go higher. One thing that is not going to happen - getting a nice Singer for $500. They know what values are and may be consulting with known authorities on the 1911 to determine reasonable starting prices. You'll notice they don't give away M1 Carbines and M1 Rifles. UNQUOTE We'll soon se what the'll do with all those guns. __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

11-26-2015, 12:20 PM	#2
tudorbug Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Georgia Posts: 387 Thanks: 0 Thanked 40 Times in 29 Posts	Hardly seems it could be true. It is good news if it is. David

11-26-2015, 12:54 PM	#3
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	It is an interesting development. Wonder of BHO will start boasting that he is the strong 2nd Amendment president? Also I'm curious to see just how long it takes to see one in my hand, and just how many are really available for sales to the public? dju

11-26-2015, 01:48 PM	#4
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,289 Thanks: 2,704 Thanked 971 Times in 716 Posts	I never though that the Prez would EVER sign this bill into law. There must have been other things in the bill that he wanted more. Anyway, there will be a "herd" of military 1911s available to the right people. I am pretty sure that John Q. Public will not be able to purchase these.....only CMP folks. I wonder what will happen to the market/price of those currently owned? I guess a lot depends on what condition these 1911s are in.

11-26-2015, 01:57 PM	#5
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,928 Thanks: 2,028 Thanked 4,525 Times in 2,090 Posts	I think it will affect them about as much as Garands and Carbines - in other words, 'original' ones will rise in value while anything messed with will be shooter price. Rumour has it that they will come out in two years (on the CMP forums) but I am not sure where that 2 yr came from, as 2 yrs ago the CMP Director would have released some if he could. The paperwork originally said 10k each year. If true, then IMHO, it would not surprise me to see some released to CMP members before Jan 1st 2017, but thats just a guess and I have not read the final version. Since this opens up calibers besides rifle and 22 LR, I imagine it could open up 9mm, 38 Special and 45 acp ammo being released, if it hasn't been destroyed

11-26-2015, 02:17 PM	#6
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	It should stir interest in the CMP program and get some shooters out to a CMP affiliated club to shoot in a match, thereby positioning them for future sales, 1911 or otherwise. dju

11-26-2015, 02:19 PM	#7
jonnyc User Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 425 Thanks: 2 Thanked 46 Times in 34 Posts	"John Q. Public" is "CMP folks". It sure doesn't take much to be able to order directly from the CMP (CIVILIAN Marksmanship Program).

11-26-2015, 02:40 PM	#8
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	You are correct. I have bought a few M1's from them in the past, and as I recall you have to have shot in one CMP Match, provide ID, a notarized release form, send your money, and presto, an M1 shows up on your porch. And it's always fun to open it up to see how the luck of the draw went. dju

12-06-2015, 09:31 PM	#10
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	I'm betting that you will at least have to go thru a listed FFL. dju

12-06-2015, 09:59 PM	#11
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	I watched RIAC auction, looks like the price is not affected yet...

12-07-2015, 02:27 PM	#13
Arizona Slim Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Illinois Posts: 706 Thanks: 1,026 Thanked 409 Times in 225 Posts	Received a letter from the IL. Rifle Association Saturday concerning this news and it said that as they were a part of the Civilian Marksmanship Program, membership in their organization would automatically qualify a potential buyer to purchase one of these pistols when they become available, sure do hope that's right. Lon

12-13-2015, 09:28 AM	#14
GreyHammer User Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Concord, NC Posts: 34 Thanks: 66 Thanked 25 Times in 14 Posts	Well, one thing on the plus side of handgun permits in North Carolina, I stops shill buyers in their tracks. This is how many handguns fall into the illegal market in other states. If you are a citizen with CCH, there is no permit required.

12-15-2015, 12:13 PM	#17
Mac Cat Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 719 Thanks: 2,081 Thanked 598 Times in 322 Posts	Sounds/reads like a Chinese fire drill, to me. It is a LOT of guns to handle, as well, so I get there is some overhead cost. How can you command RETAIL prices, for guns that one probably can't examine or choose. I wondered if anyone will be test firing them, first ? You know, the way the German's proofed re-worked weapons.

12-15-2015, 09:43 PM	#18
CAP Black User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Fairmont, WV Right here in Mountaineer country and God's country Posts: 767 Thanks: 100 Thanked 168 Times in 96 Posts	My understanding is that they evaluate the weapons and put them is classes or grades and sell them accordingly. They are gone over rather extensively. You can purchase the quality that you desire. I have an M1 Garand and it is just as they described it and shoots extremely well as I was lead to expect. Thanks Jack

12-16-2015, 12:14 PM	#20
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,907 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,108 Times in 1,509 Posts	I have visited the CMP facility in Port Clinton, Ohio (which includes the retail store, and their offices for managing competition). It's very well run. I have never been to Anniston, Alabama but understand that they also have warehouse facilities there. They are very well setup to store a volume of incoming items, and then evaluate, restore/repair and then sell them at a relatively slow pace - which they manage. We are coming toward the end of the M1 Garand stocks transferred by the US Government to the CMP so I expect that space is opening up in the warehouses, and the armorers that have worked on M1 Garands and Carbines are ready for their next specialization. When the CMP grades firearms, they are reasonably conservative. I have bought "Field Grade" guns that I couldn't tell from the next higher "Service Grade". When I got a M1 Carbine (Service Grade) that was inaccurate - probably due to a barrel deformation - they replaced it without any problem. I think that they may tend to extend that level of support more easily for the higher grade guns. I hope that they do proceed reasonably quickly to making graded pistols available. Needless to day, when they become available these pistols will sell quickly - and take some time to ship as the CMP wades through the avalanche of orders... Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.