Repro Drum magazines, more info.!

G.T. · 07-03-2015, 09:58 PM

Hello to all, I've had a chance to take apart one of the early Numrich drum magazines and made some interesting discoveries? First of all, the magazine was being worked on because of insufficient tension when fully loaded? When I checked the tension, there was barely 5 pounds at full lock, that is about where original drum mag springs start!!! It should have been around 10 pounds at that point. I removed the mainspring for inspection, and discovered it is approx. .080" less width then the originals as well???... Soooo, I had a chance to install one of my new GTHQ reproduction mainsprings and wind it full tight to the lock point. Good news is... it fit! Best news is, it was the correct tension!

.... I loaded it up to 32 rounds, and with the firing pin removed, and hand cycled all of them thru without a hitch! Ran perfect!

... I'm pretty happy! If you're having trouble with your repro drum not functioning, the spring tension could well be the trouble! BTW, unless you're going to drop into an enemy trench in the next fifteen minutes or so, I would recommend loading all drums, original or repro, to 25 rounds max! The last half doz or so, really puts a strain on the whole assembly?? Well, best to all, til...lat'r....GT.....

G.T. · 07-04-2015, 04:14 PM

Hello again, another annoying shortcoming of the repro drums is the little spring loaded button the follower! Every one of them has been loose, or has fallen out when disassemble from the drum...

....... I straighten all up and re-set them, but it is not a permanent cure at all.... I'm still working on it! .... Results soon... Best to all, til...lat'r....GT.....

Jim Mac · 07-04-2015, 11:22 PM

Are the reproduction being sold? If so where? Thanks. Jim

ithacaartist · 07-04-2015, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Mac

Are the reproduction being sold? If so where? Thanks. Jim

Numrich

G.T. · 07-08-2015, 09:46 PM

Hello to all! Spent most of the day working on a Numrich repro. and almost all of that effort was tuning for fit? It seems, as if some fit right out of the bucket.. and some you can't insert, or remove without a dead blow hammer!!!!....

Well, I can now cure that on most of them! If you have a real tight magazine well, and a far out of tolerance drum...you're just screwed!

... But, most fall into the category of examples we can correct!

... So, if you want to use yours for shoot'in, send it to me and I'll repair it, If you want to dump it or the loader, let me know as I can use the parts! ... Best to all, til...latr..GT....

lugerholsterrepair · 07-09-2015, 12:05 PM

Drum on the way for GT Magic!

DonVoigt · 07-10-2015, 11:44 PM

Just ordered one from Numrich to be drop shipped to GT for his magic tune up!

G.T. · 08-22-2015, 11:58 AM

OK, breaking news! If you have been following the discussions about drum magazine deficiencies ... then you are aware it all comes down to fit & function! ... The fit part, as from now on, I have 100% cured!!!! On most, to a drop free empty condition!....

.....
As to function, I have determined that, although the drums vary slightly, the main issue confronting function is mainspring tension... as we have discussed at length... The repro drum springs are anemic, and barely work at their max preload!!!....

... and perform even worse as they unwind???
My G.T. replacement main spring is considerably better, as it is the correct width and length. Although it to has to be wound to the max capacity, it has the correct minimum tensions to operate the drum successfully and consistently. Or at least it has done so on my tests here at home...

.... But, it really needs a small increase in thickness on the added bridal spring to be exactly the same as the originals, which I believe would add just that little smidgen of extra strength so necessary for function thru the transition from mainspring to coil spring......... Sooooooo, you ask, what does this all boil down to? Well, on Monday, I'm going to re-order more SAE1075 at .025" X .785 (.005" increase in thickness) for the bridal spring upgrade!!!!!!

again!!! Anyway, then they will be dimensionally perfect! And, I'll, of course, will have to sell three more! .....

......BTW, Jer, if yours don't function correctly for you, I'll switch them out at no cost, I pay shipping both ways..... (I think they will work fine though

) we will see! Best all, til....lat'r...GT......

BTW, when German engineers finally got to this point in their testing, they probably exclaimed, "Holy crap, it works!"...

lugerholsterrepair · 08-22-2015, 12:35 PM

Crazy GT..I will thoroughly test your drum when I get to it in Oct. It's in AZ and I am 1000 miles away from it! I am certain it will be perfect. Your work is always top notch.

For those of you who have a Numrich drum..better get it modified before Crazy GT comes to his senses and gets a real job...You have to appreciate a man with this much dedication! Impressive..

Thanks GT! Keep up the good work..I for one appreciate it no end.

G.T. · 08-24-2015, 10:22 PM

OOOooohhh! Lordy, lordy, lordy!!! will this never end!.....

.... .025" X .785 SAE1075 ordered and on the way!!!! By the way, who's supposed to be watching me???....

.... More fun ahead! Best to all, til....lat'r....GT.....

G.T. · 09-06-2015, 10:40 PM

The thicker bridal spring steel arrived Friday, and I have been in the shop all weekend making test springs to see if we are any closer to our quest!..... And the preliminary answer yes! YES!!!! The new spring mimics the original in EVERY respect!!!! I could not be more pleased!!!!!!.....

...... I feel somewhat like a mad scientist!! It's alive, it's alive!!! ...Ok, maybe not quite like that?? I'm hoping this is the NUMRICH drum cure.... Stand by...more to follow! .... best to all, til....lat'r....GT....

DonVoigt · 09-07-2015, 12:12 PM

Sounds like good progress!

Keep us posted.

We're going to have to nick-name you "Job"; as in the patience of Job.

G.T. · 09-08-2015, 09:14 PM

Hi Don, I agree there are similarities... except I think Job would have quit by now......

..... best to all, til...lat'r....GT......

G.T. · 11-04-2015, 02:25 PM

Well, believe it or not, for the last five months, Non stop! I have been working on / testing / modifying / and upgrading the Numrich repro drum magazine and loader...... And, just this morning, at the range, achieved 100% function, .....

......thru several strings using Winchester Range/ Target ammo.
Although it doesn't sound like much of an accomplishment, it is practically impossible to get that type of performance out of the box stock drum unless some serious modifications are performed.
With the assistance of Don Voigt we have nailed down all the modifications necessary, and are in the final stages of tuning to prepare for re-manufacture of the problem drums that come available. I spent a lot of time, ammo and money on the upgrades, and will for now keep them confidential, but let me just say, they are extensive, and necessary! One of them, as you already know, is the addition of the new mainspring! And that is just the start.... The loading tool has undergone some serious modifications as well. and will be custom matched to the drum it is to service.... It's not going to be a cheap fix, as it isn't cost effective to do in the first place, but if you want to impress your buddies at the range, or want something more than a paper weight, then we are your guys!

... By the way, for the 4 or 5 customers drums we have already worked on, please send them back, I will do the subsequent modifications necessary, no charge, and let you know about several that are an option, but will incur a cost... Best to all, til....lat'r.....GT....

DavidJayUden · 11-04-2015, 02:32 PM

I had no doubt that you'd have them straightened out in no time.
I have one here that is unmod'ed, so if you want to have at that one send me a PM and I'll get it off to you.
Thanks for all your efforts here, G. T.
dju

DonVoigt · 11-04-2015, 08:02 PM

GT has been working diligently, I do believe some every day!
He and I have communicated daily it seems for at least 3 months, often 10 times a day and well into the night when a solution seemed close. Member Tim Hawkins loaned me an original drum for inspection and reverse engineering, which was also helpful.

I know he has expended many hundreds of rounds of ammo and scores of hours on this project to date.

As most of you no doubt know, the trommel mag was a challenge when it was new- and 100 year old drums are not reliable either.

Not only will GT be able to upgrade the Numrich repro drum to use-able status, he can replace broken or weak main springs in original drums also.

5card · 12-10-2015, 03:53 PM

Do you know if the current Numrich drums are the GT versions?

lugerholsterrepair · 12-10-2015, 04:00 PM

It's my understanding that Numrich is modifying all of the drums it has so the answer would be yes?

G.T. · 12-10-2015, 07:12 PM

Hi to Jer & all! Not quite yet!.....

...... I have only submitted test drums so far? I will post a note here as soon as the first batch of Numrich drums are completed! ....

......I have enough materials for the first 50 or so... and will be on task soon! Please be patient as the repair is complex and labor intensive! We are streamlining the process and tooling ..... BUT, any drum repaired by me from now on will be GT stamped, so whether they go thru me first, or Numrich first, they will have to show the stamp to have been tuned?.... GT stamped NUMRICH drums will be available soon, they (Numrich) just have to say "Ready, Set, Go!" ......

... Best to all, til...lat'r....GT......

07-03-2015, 09:58 PM	#1
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,502 Thanks: 1,318 Thanked 3,639 Times in 1,001 Posts	Repro Drum magazines, more info.! Hello to all, I've had a chance to take apart one of the early Numrich drum magazines and made some interesting discoveries? First of all, the magazine was being worked on because of insufficient tension when fully loaded? When I checked the tension, there was barely 5 pounds at full lock, that is about where original drum mag springs start!!! It should have been around 10 pounds at that point. I removed the mainspring for inspection, and discovered it is approx. .080" less width then the originals as well???... Soooo, I had a chance to install one of my new GTHQ reproduction mainsprings and wind it full tight to the lock point. Good news is... it fit! Best news is, it was the correct tension! .... I loaded it up to 32 rounds, and with the firing pin removed, and hand cycled all of them thru without a hitch! Ran perfect! ... I'm pretty happy! If you're having trouble with your repro drum not functioning, the spring tension could well be the trouble! BTW, unless you're going to drop into an enemy trench in the next fifteen minutes or so, I would recommend loading all drums, original or repro, to 25 rounds max! The last half doz or so, really puts a strain on the whole assembly?? Well, best to all, til...lat'r....GT..... Last edited by G.T.; 07-04-2015 at 12:53 PM.

07-04-2015, 04:14 PM	#2
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,502 Thanks: 1,318 Thanked 3,639 Times in 1,001 Posts	more of the more info! Hello again, another annoying shortcoming of the repro drums is the little spring loaded button the follower! Every one of them has been loose, or has fallen out when disassemble from the drum.......... I straighten all up and re-set them, but it is not a permanent cure at all.... I'm still working on it! .... Results soon... Best to all, til...lat'r....GT.....

07-08-2015, 09:46 PM	#5
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,502 Thanks: 1,318 Thanked 3,639 Times in 1,001 Posts	Best news so far!!!!! Hello to all! Spent most of the day working on a Numrich repro. and almost all of that effort was tuning for fit? It seems, as if some fit right out of the bucket.. and some you can't insert, or remove without a dead blow hammer!!!!.... Well, I can now cure that on most of them! If you have a real tight magazine well, and a far out of tolerance drum...you're just screwed! ... But, most fall into the category of examples we can correct! ... So, if you want to use yours for shoot'in, send it to me and I'll repair it, If you want to dump it or the loader, let me know as I can use the parts! ... Best to all, til...latr..GT....

07-09-2015, 12:05 PM	#6
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,770 Thanks: 4,907 Thanked 3,122 Times in 1,433 Posts	Drum on the way for GT Magic! __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

08-22-2015, 11:58 AM	#8
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,502 Thanks: 1,318 Thanked 3,639 Times in 1,001 Posts	Latest on drum upgrades! OK, breaking news! If you have been following the discussions about drum magazine deficiencies ... then you are aware it all comes down to fit & function! ... The fit part, as from now on, I have 100% cured!!!! On most, to a drop free empty condition!......... As to function, I have determined that, although the drums vary slightly, the main issue confronting function is mainspring tension... as we have discussed at length... The repro drum springs are anemic, and barely work at their max preload!!!....... and perform even worse as they unwind??? My G.T. replacement main spring is considerably better, as it is the correct width and length. Although it to has to be wound to the max capacity, it has the correct minimum tensions to operate the drum successfully and consistently. Or at least it has done so on my tests here at home... .... But, it really needs a small increase in thickness on the added bridal spring to be exactly the same as the originals, which I believe would add just that little smidgen of extra strength so necessary for function thru the transition from mainspring to coil spring......... Sooooooo, you ask, what does this all boil down to? Well, on Monday, I'm going to re-order more SAE1075 at .025" X .785 (.005" increase in thickness) for the bridal spring upgrade!!!!!! again!!! Anyway, then they will be dimensionally perfect! And, I'll, of course, will have to sell three more! ...........BTW, Jer, if yours don't function correctly for you, I'll switch them out at no cost, I pay shipping both ways..... (I think they will work fine though) we will see! Best all, til....lat'r...GT...... BTW, when German engineers finally got to this point in their testing, they probably exclaimed, "Holy crap, it works!"... Last edited by G.T.; 08-22-2015 at 10:42 PM.

07-04-2015, 11:22 PM	#3
Jim Mac User Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 261 Thanks: 2 Thanked 67 Times in 35 Posts	Are the reproduction being sold? If so where? Thanks. Jim

07-10-2015, 11:44 PM	#7
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,441 Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts	Just ordered one from Numrich to be drop shipped to GT for his magic tune up!

08-22-2015, 12:35 PM	#9
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,770 Thanks: 4,907 Thanked 3,122 Times in 1,433 Posts	Crazy GT..I will thoroughly test your drum when I get to it in Oct. It's in AZ and I am 1000 miles away from it! I am certain it will be perfect. Your work is always top notch. For those of you who have a Numrich drum..better get it modified before Crazy GT comes to his senses and gets a real job...You have to appreciate a man with this much dedication! Impressive.. Thanks GT! Keep up the good work..I for one appreciate it no end. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

08-24-2015, 10:22 PM	#10
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,502 Thanks: 1,318 Thanked 3,639 Times in 1,001 Posts	steel on the way! OOOooohhh! Lordy, lordy, lordy!!! will this never end!......... .025" X .785 SAE1075 ordered and on the way!!!! By the way, who's supposed to be watching me???.... .... More fun ahead! Best to all, til....lat'r....GT.....

09-06-2015, 10:40 PM	#11
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,502 Thanks: 1,318 Thanked 3,639 Times in 1,001 Posts	Update! The thicker bridal spring steel arrived Friday, and I have been in the shop all weekend making test springs to see if we are any closer to our quest!..... And the preliminary answer yes! YES!!!! The new spring mimics the original in EVERY respect!!!! I could not be more pleased!!!!!!........... I feel somewhat like a mad scientist!! It's alive, it's alive!!! ...Ok, maybe not quite like that?? I'm hoping this is the NUMRICH drum cure.... Stand by...more to follow! .... best to all, til....lat'r....GT....

09-07-2015, 12:12 PM	#12
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,441 Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts	Sounds like good progress! Keep us posted. We're going to have to nick-name you "Job"; as in the patience of Job.

09-08-2015, 09:14 PM	#13
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,502 Thanks: 1,318 Thanked 3,639 Times in 1,001 Posts	patience.... Hi Don, I agree there are similarities... except I think Job would have quit by now...... ..... best to all, til...lat'r....GT......

11-04-2015, 02:25 PM	#14
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,502 Thanks: 1,318 Thanked 3,639 Times in 1,001 Posts	Breaking news! Drum repair progress! Well, believe it or not, for the last five months, Non stop! I have been working on / testing / modifying / and upgrading the Numrich repro drum magazine and loader...... And, just this morning, at the range, achieved 100% function, ...........thru several strings using Winchester Range/ Target ammo. Although it doesn't sound like much of an accomplishment, it is practically impossible to get that type of performance out of the box stock drum unless some serious modifications are performed. With the assistance of Don Voigt we have nailed down all the modifications necessary, and are in the final stages of tuning to prepare for re-manufacture of the problem drums that come available. I spent a lot of time, ammo and money on the upgrades, and will for now keep them confidential, but let me just say, they are extensive, and necessary! One of them, as you already know, is the addition of the new mainspring! And that is just the start.... The loading tool has undergone some serious modifications as well. and will be custom matched to the drum it is to service.... It's not going to be a cheap fix, as it isn't cost effective to do in the first place, but if you want to impress your buddies at the range, or want something more than a paper weight, then we are your guys! ... By the way, for the 4 or 5 customers drums we have already worked on, please send them back, I will do the subsequent modifications necessary, no charge, and let you know about several that are an option, but will incur a cost... Best to all, til....lat'r.....GT....

11-04-2015, 02:32 PM	#15
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	I had no doubt that you'd have them straightened out in no time. I have one here that is unmod'ed, so if you want to have at that one send me a PM and I'll get it off to you. Thanks for all your efforts here, G. T. dju

11-04-2015, 08:02 PM	#16
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,441 Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts	GT has been working diligently, I do believe some every day! He and I have communicated daily it seems for at least 3 months, often 10 times a day and well into the night when a solution seemed close. Member Tim Hawkins loaned me an original drum for inspection and reverse engineering, which was also helpful. I know he has expended many hundreds of rounds of ammo and scores of hours on this project to date. As most of you no doubt know, the trommel mag was a challenge when it was new- and 100 year old drums are not reliable either. Not only will GT be able to upgrade the Numrich repro drum to use-able status, he can replace broken or weak main springs in original drums also.

12-10-2015, 03:53 PM	#17
5card User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: PA Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Do you know if the current Numrich drums are the GT versions?

12-10-2015, 04:00 PM	#18
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,770 Thanks: 4,907 Thanked 3,122 Times in 1,433 Posts	It's my understanding that Numrich is modifying all of the drums it has so the answer would be yes? __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

12-10-2015, 07:12 PM	#19
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,502 Thanks: 1,318 Thanked 3,639 Times in 1,001 Posts	not quite yet!!! Hi to Jer & all! Not quite yet!........... I have only submitted test drums so far? I will post a note here as soon as the first batch of Numrich drums are completed! ..........I have enough materials for the first 50 or so... and will be on task soon! Please be patient as the repair is complex and labor intensive! We are streamlining the process and tooling ..... BUT, any drum repaired by me from now on will be GT stamped, so whether they go thru me first, or Numrich first, they will have to show the stamp to have been tuned?.... GT stamped NUMRICH drums will be available soon, they (Numrich) just have to say "Ready, Set, Go!" ...... ... Best to all, til...lat'r....GT......