Cartridge Counter for sale

Roadkill · 06-21-2002, 10:00 PM

http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/Vie...p?Item=4312819

First one of these I've seen for sale. Interesting.

RK

Joe · 06-21-2002, 11:22 PM

[img]confused.gif[/img]

Is it true that the 1902 "Fat Barrel" Luger was the first handgun chambered for the 9mm cartridge? I know the Mauser Broomhandle is a 19th design, but I believe the 9mm version came out many years later.

Can anyone think of another 9mm handgun that pre-dates the 1902 Luger?

Edward Tinker · 06-21-2002, 11:27 PM

I don't know about the Fat barrel 1902 being the first one. But Georg Luger had them take out the shoulder on the 7.65 and thus made the 9mm cartridge. So the Luger was the first 9mm Luger, I am sure there were other 9 mm type of cartridges, but not as we know them today.

Doubs · 06-22-2002, 02:40 PM

[quote]Originally posted by Joe:
<strong> [img]confused.gif[/img] Is it true that the 1902 "Fat Barrel" Luger was the first handgun chambered for the 9mm cartridge? Can anyone think of another 9mm handgun that pre-dates the 1902 Luger?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Joe, the 1902 "Fat Barrel" is commonly considered to be the first pistol chambered in what we now know as the 9mm Luger cartridge. In the John Walter book "The Luger Story", chapter four goes into a lengthy story casting doubt upon the actual date that the 9mm appeared. I've only seen one 1902 Fat Barrel pistol... both before and after restoration as it was in pretty sad condition... and it was undoubtedly 9mm Parabellum.

Walter says British records suggest that the "perfected" 9mm prototypes were not ready until 1903 but in further reading, it's my opinion that the kinks had been pretty well worked out of the 9mm before the end of 1902. The issue may have been complicated for the British by their Small Arms Committee's requirement for a caliber of no less than .40 and Vicker's response that the Borchardt - Luger couldn't meet those specs.

Unless something has changed in the past few years, 1902 is still valid for the introduction of the 9mm Parabellum cartridge.

Joe · 06-23-2002, 02:11 PM

Doubs,

Thanks for the clarification!

<img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" />

06-21-2002, 10:00 PM	#1
Roadkill User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,632 Thanks: 1 Thanked 28 Times in 17 Posts	Cartridge Counter for sale http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/Vie...p?Item=4312819 First one of these I've seen for sale. Interesting. RK

06-21-2002, 11:27 PM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,932 Thanks: 2,032 Thanked 4,528 Times in 2,091 Posts	I don't know about the Fat barrel 1902 being the first one. But Georg Luger had them take out the shoulder on the 7.65 and thus made the 9mm cartridge. So the Luger was the first 9mm Luger, I am sure there were other 9 mm type of cartridges, but not as we know them today. __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

06-21-2002, 11:22 PM	#2
Joe User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 96 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	[img]confused.gif[/img] Is it true that the 1902 "Fat Barrel" Luger was the first handgun chambered for the 9mm cartridge? I know the Mauser Broomhandle is a 19th design, but I believe the 9mm version came out many years later. Can anyone think of another 9mm handgun that pre-dates the 1902 Luger?

06-22-2002, 02:40 PM	#4
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,696 Thanks: 792 Thanked 1,679 Times in 552 Posts	[quote]Originally posted by Joe: <strong> [img]confused.gif[/img] Is it true that the 1902 "Fat Barrel" Luger was the first handgun chambered for the 9mm cartridge? Can anyone think of another 9mm handgun that pre-dates the 1902 Luger?</strong><hr></blockquote> Joe, the 1902 "Fat Barrel" is commonly considered to be the first pistol chambered in what we now know as the 9mm Luger cartridge. In the John Walter book "The Luger Story", chapter four goes into a lengthy story casting doubt upon the actual date that the 9mm appeared. I've only seen one 1902 Fat Barrel pistol... both before and after restoration as it was in pretty sad condition... and it was undoubtedly 9mm Parabellum. Walter says British records suggest that the "perfected" 9mm prototypes were not ready until 1903 but in further reading, it's my opinion that the kinks had been pretty well worked out of the 9mm before the end of 1902. The issue may have been complicated for the British by their Small Arms Committee's requirement for a caliber of no less than .40 and Vicker's response that the Borchardt - Luger couldn't meet those specs. Unless something has changed in the past few years, 1902 is still valid for the introduction of the 9mm Parabellum cartridge.

06-23-2002, 02:11 PM	#5
Joe User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 96 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Doubs, Thanks for the clarification! <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" />