7.65 Ammo - Same Name; Different Performance

[Penzzz]

My DWM 1920 7.65 Luger was brought home from Germany by my Father's Uncle sometime after WWI. This matching numbers pistol was in my Father's possession (in a drawer, wrapped in a towel) unknown to any of us, for perhaps fifty years. How and when he obtained the pistol is a mystery. Around fifteen years ago my Mother gave the gun to me. To my knowledge the pistol hasn't been fired since coming to the States.

Recently, I got the urge to shoot the pistol for the first time and purchased a box of Fiocchi ammo at a gun show (tan box - 7,65 designation). After a thorough cleaning and some lubrication I hit the range and loaded five rounds into the magazine. The gun cycled perfectly and shot accurately. In total I put twenty five rounds through it with no ejection or feed problems. Buoyed by this experience I ordered six boxes of ammo from a reliable source (same ammo as I had was pictured on their site). The ammo I received wasn't in the tan box, instead it was in a black/gray striped box. The ammo itself looked nearly identical so I wasn't worried.

That is, until I went to the range and tried the new ammo. First I ran five of my original rounds through with no problems. Next I tried the newly purchased ammo and it failed to feed every time after a round was discharged. I tried an original round ahead of a new round and the new round fed fine. It appeared that the original round provided enough energy to cycle the gun. Then I tried a new round ahead of an original round and had another feed failure. In my very limited experience with Lugers I am concluding the newly purchased ammo doesn't provide enough energy to cycle the gun properly. Performed these tests a couple more times with the same results. Pistol/magazine seem fine, new ammo doesn't.

So I'm looking for some feedback on Fiocchi 7.65 ammo made/sold in different boxes, made in different manufacturing sites/countries, etc.. Some hotter than others? Based on my experiences today I may be sitting on quite a few Fiocchi single shot rounds.

[Curss]

I have never had an issue with Fiocchi in 7.65 Parabellum, grey box or otherwise. Is this isolated to one grey box, or do the other five boxes of ammunition behave in the same way?

[DavidJayUden]

I can't comment on this subject but do recommend that you get a Mec-Gar magazine and preserve your original. It may function better and it will certainly take the pressure off that old wooden bottom.
Secondly, make certain that you are gripping the gun tightly shot to shot, not slacking up in anticipation of a stove-pipe.
The only difference I would know to look for on any ammo is the bullet weight (115, 124, 147 grain) and design, and the muzzle velocity.
But you've come to the right place.
dju

[mrerick]

Some Lugers are picky about ammo... It doesn't take much of a difference either.

If both rounds are using the same weight FMJ bullets, there may have been a change in powder type or some other difference. Different powder may develop the same muzzle velocity, but with a different pressure curve.

Lugers cycle in a rather fine tuned balanced way. Dirt can impact cycling, but I am assuming your gun is clean and properly lubricated - especially since it doesn't misbehave when you go back to the original ammo.

After trying another magazine (which is good advice, since it's easy to damage a wood bottom magazine) the next thing to do would be to ensure that the extractor well is clean and then consider changing the recoil spring. Use a lower power spring (they are available in sets). The 7.65mm Luger round develops slightly less recoil than the 9mm, and the pulse shape is different.

While you have the extractor out, check to verify that the face of the extractor hook has not been damaged in any way.

[ithacaartist]

I haven't begun to reload yet, but the impression I get from reading, researching, and conversing about it is that overall length is also an important factor for ammo. You might also try S&B ammo, which is also currently available.

[rhuff]

Some very good info given above. The Luger can be/is picky as to it's mag, springs, and ammo. There is a thread on this forum where a member(Don Voigt) tested his Luger with Fiocchi ammo, and it ran very reliably. Then it sold it to a member here. The member tried HIS Fiocchi ammo in this Luger, and had a jam-a-matic!! So yes, it appears that not all Fiocchi 30 luger ammo is the same. Winchester makes 30 luger ammo, but it is quite expensive compared to other brands.

[Penzzz]

Thanks to everyone for the responses. Visibly the original ammo (7,65 = Europe made?) and the later purchased ammo (7.65 = U.S. Made?) are nearly identical, however with the recently purchased ammo I notice that the bullet is seated slightly deeper in the case. On the question whether I tried rounds from each of the six 7.65 boxes, I didn't. So unsure whether the other boxes would behave the same. Also, my grip on the pistol and response to recoil was the same with the newer ammo and my original ammo. 7,65 ammo great, 7.65 ammo failed to feed every time unless preceded by the 7,65 ammo in the magazine. So maybe the 7,65 (original box) ammo creates enough pressure to cycle the action properly and the 7.65 doesn't. I feel a bit misled by the vendor who used a picture of 7,65 ammo on their website. Shipped me something different.

Thanks again,
Jeff

[DavidJayUden]

You just need to beg, borrow, reload or steal some ammo. that the gun likes, then stick with it. It is a slow process of elimination that most of us go thru with each different "shooter" Luger.
dju

[rhuff]

Since you have already cleaned and lubed it(Lugers like to be well lubed), the next step that I would make is to purchase a new Mec-Gar mag for this luger. The "old" ammo appears to have the right recoil impulse to cycle the toggle train, and the new ammo is either underpowered, OR overpowered and is short stroking the toggle train. You have to figure out what is happening, in order to correct it. Start with a good new mag, and see how things work. You may well end up purchasing a set of mainsprings(different poundage) and find the best one for your ammo. The springs are not expensive.


The P08 Luger can be very frustrating to get correct for the ammo you choose to use, and because of this, many Luger owners just leave them in the safe, or sell/trade them off. These guns are around 100 years old, and had only one brand of ammo to contend with when they were new.

[ithacaartist]

While checking for relative ammo power, I suggest using the masking tape method. One applies some masking tape across the area on the back end of the frame that the "duckbill" on the rear toggle has probably already left some marks in the frame's finish. You'll be able to tell if your ammo is on the under-powered end of things when there is no contact with the tape at all. Rounds that are too powerful would really chop the tape up--a warning sign that there's excessive energy in the action, and things are bottoming out. If the latter is the case, put in a stronger spring (as Richard advises well to have on hand), because constantly pressing the action to/beyond its limits is a significant factor in breaking stuff!

[Penzzz]

Thanks again to all the great replies! Locating ammo for some infrequent use of the gun is my first priority, though I am a tinkerer and will look into how well my luger is working mechanically.

Jeff