Interesting Erfurt 1918/1920 with Weimar unit marking

DonVoigt · 09-04-2015, 09:55 AM

I recently bought this Luger, primarily as it is marked to a Reichswehr unit- 12./J.R.5.41.

Keoki has helped with the interpretation of this marking and it represents the 12th Company of the 5th Infantry Regiment, weapon 41.

It gets more interesting from there though, the serial number is 8031r, placing it late in production in 1918 not long before the end of the war. Finish is worn, but barrel is nice and bright.

The pressures of late production are evident in this example, rougher finish, no inspection on the grip screws or magazine catch,no bevel on the upper edge of the right rail, many RC parts.

A real puzzle to me is that though the pistol is all matching, except for the over stamped toggle numbers, and TD lever; it has only the c/rc and c/(B proof on the right chamber, along with an early Nazi firing proof to the left of this marking and the same but smaller eagle on the apparently original Erfurt barrel, where an Imperial eagle would be expected.

The toggle is Erfurt marked, has a broken crown die, it looks like it was originally # "02" it was over stamped with "31" to match the frame and barrel and other small parts are also "31" but originally marked. The breech bolt is RC marked on the right, but also has the early Nazi type proof eagle on the left where the Imperial eagle would be expected.

The original striker has been upgraded to the "grooved" version and the rear toggle axle is numbered, indicating some repair or other work after
1932 when these features started to be used.

It also came with WWII vintage "capture" or "bring back" paper,
dated March 1946.

Comment and analysis invited!

DonVoigt · 09-04-2015, 09:56 AM

More pictures of Erfurt 1918/1920 # 8031 r, in post 1.

4 Scale · 09-11-2015, 01:23 PM

I can't provide much analysis but comments are it's a handsome pistol, good honest wear and capture papers are always interesting to see.

Regarding the WWII barrel proof, those are always fascinating. I'm wondering if there is a reference source somewhere that discusses WWI pistols that also served as WWII sidearms. It would be interesting to know how many and what the pathway was. Were they stored in arsenals at the end of WWI or were they purchased or contributed by or appropriated from civilians? There seem to be a lot of them out there.

John Sabato · 09-11-2015, 04:09 PM

The surface of this pistol, especially the marks around the circumference of the barrel, appears that someone used some rough sandpaper to remove some surface corrosion or rust ... probably resulting from poor storage conditions.

DonVoigt · 09-14-2015, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Sabato

The surface of this pistol, especially the marks around the circumference of the barrel, appears that someone used some rough sandpaper to remove some surface corrosion or rust ... probably resulting from poor storage conditions.

John,
I agree that could be the case, but I don't think so.
The lines are perfectly concentric, parallel to each other and at right angles to the bore.

The eagle and the numbers seem stamped after the lines were created, at least to my eye.

No signs of any pitting.

I think it just hurried production and no polish.

I've posted two close ups.

Any ideas on the time frame of the eagles?

09-04-2015, 09:55 AM	#1
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,441 Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts	Interesting Erfurt 1918/1920 with Weimar unit marking I recently bought this Luger, primarily as it is marked to a Reichswehr unit- 12./J.R.5.41. Keoki has helped with the interpretation of this marking and it represents the 12th Company of the 5th Infantry Regiment, weapon 41. It gets more interesting from there though, the serial number is 8031r, placing it late in production in 1918 not long before the end of the war. Finish is worn, but barrel is nice and bright. The pressures of late production are evident in this example, rougher finish, no inspection on the grip screws or magazine catch,no bevel on the upper edge of the right rail, many RC parts. A real puzzle to me is that though the pistol is all matching, except for the over stamped toggle numbers, and TD lever; it has only the c/rc and c/(B proof on the right chamber, along with an early Nazi firing proof to the left of this marking and the same but smaller eagle on the apparently original Erfurt barrel, where an Imperial eagle would be expected. The toggle is Erfurt marked, has a broken crown die, it looks like it was originally # "02" it was over stamped with "31" to match the frame and barrel and other small parts are also "31" but originally marked. The breech bolt is RC marked on the right, but also has the early Nazi type proof eagle on the left where the Imperial eagle would be expected. The original striker has been upgraded to the "grooved" version and the rear toggle axle is numbered, indicating some repair or other work after 1932 when these features started to be used. It also came with WWII vintage "capture" or "bring back" paper, dated March 1946. Comment and analysis invited! Attached Thumbnails Last edited by DonVoigt; 09-04-2015 at 12:32 PM.

09-04-2015, 09:56 AM	#2
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,441 Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts	More pictures of Erfurt 1918/1920 # 8031 r, in post 1. Attached Thumbnails Last edited by DonVoigt; 09-04-2015 at 10:47 AM.

09-11-2015, 04:09 PM	#4
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,153 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	The surface of this pistol, especially the marks around the circumference of the barrel, appears that someone used some rough sandpaper to remove some surface corrosion or rust ... probably resulting from poor storage conditions. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

09-11-2015, 01:23 PM	#3
4 Scale User Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 544 Thanks: 194 Thanked 489 Times in 251 Posts	I can't provide much analysis but comments are it's a handsome pistol, good honest wear and capture papers are always interesting to see. Regarding the WWII barrel proof, those are always fascinating. I'm wondering if there is a reference source somewhere that discusses WWI pistols that also served as WWII sidearms. It would be interesting to know how many and what the pathway was. Were they stored in arsenals at the end of WWI or were they purchased or contributed by or appropriated from civilians? There seem to be a lot of them out there.