DID DWM/BKIW RESUME MANUFACTURING 9-MM PO8s IN THE LATE 1920s?

[Don M]

It is well-established that DWM was ordered by the IMKK in 1921 to cease manufacturing pistols with calibers of 8 mm or more or barrel lengths of 100 mm or more. As a consequence, subsequent DWM Parabellum deliveries were limited to “commercial” variations in 7.65-mm caliber with barrel lengths of 96 and 98 mm. For subsequent Parabellum purchases from DWM, the police routinely replaced the barrels, recoil and magazine springs of delivered 7.65-mm Parabellum pistols to create the desired 9-mm P08s. (See, for example, The Mauser Parabellum 1930 – 1946 by Don Hallock & Joop van de Kant, pp. 339-40.) Many collectors believe this arrangement persisted throughout the remainder of DWM/BKIW’s manufacture of Parabellums until the manufacturing equipment was transferred to Mauser in Oberndorf in the spring of 1930.

Although it has not been a topic of extensive research by me, over the last several years I have come to believe it is very likely that BKIW resumed the manufacture of 9-mm P08s following the withdrawal of the IMKK from Germany in 1927, even though the prohibition remained in effect. Not everyone agrees with me, including Dwight Gruber,, whose opinions I greatly respect. I hope replies to this thread may shed some light on this issue.

There are several reasons I have developed my opinion.

Dutch Navy Contracts – Hallock and van de Kant had access to handwritten notes from August Weiss (head of Parabellum production for DWM and Mauser from 1920 to 1946), correspondence between BKIW(DWM) and Mauser and Mauser inventory and sales records for 1930. Based on this information, the authors state that 1,484 9-mm P08s were delivered by BKIW (DWM) to the Dutch Navy in the period from 1928 to January 1930 (Ibid., p.386). They also conclude that BKIW transferred 815 finished 9-mm P08s and 9,526 finished and unfinished 9-mm P08 barrels to Mauser in February and March 1930 (Ibid., pp. 567-8). This strongly suggests that BKIW had resumed manufacturing 9-mm P08s by 1928 at the latest.

Rif Contract Pistols – Based on the notes of August Weiss, Hallock and van de Kant have also provided very strong evidence that the “blank toggle” or “sneak” DWM P08s were originally manufactured for the revolutionary Rif tribe in Morocco in about 1927 or 1928. These were not delivered to the Rif and were later sold to the German police (Ibid., p. 340). I know of no documentary evidence that these pistols were 9-mm caliber; however, the fact that they were intended for military use suggests they may have been.

Hessische Polizei (H.P.) Pistols – Based on their serial numbers in the upper part of the “u” and very low “v” suffix blocks, these apparently were the last pistols delivered by BKIW to the German police in late 1929 or early 1930. In preparing this post, I made a quick search of the LugerForum and Jan Still’s Forum to find any photos that might indicate whether these pistols were or were not originally 9-mm. Shown below are photos of five H.P. P08s which I have enhanced to try to determine whether the witness marks suggest they have their original barrels. Unfortunately, only the photo of 7428u is really adequate to form any firm conclusions and it strongly suggests this barrel has been replaced since there is no witness mark on the barrel. The other four photos appear to show aligned witness marks across the barrels and receivers but this is very speculative. There is however other evidence that may be significant. The barrels of the other four (7225u, 7291u, 7300u and 7563u) all have the suffix “u” stamped on them while that of 7428u does not. If the presence of the suffix is a characteristic of an original barrel and if the witness marks on these pistols are aligned, it is likely that the barrel of 7428u is a later replacement (not an immediate replacement of an original 7.65-mm barrel), indicating these pistols were originally manufactured in 9-mm.

The H.P. evidence is rather meager. I hope that more evidence can be collected that will more firmly establish whether or not BKIW manufactured 9-mm P08s for the German police in the 1927-29 period. Accordingly, I request that forum members submit photos similar to that of 7248u of DWM Parabellums with serial numbers in the “s”, “t” and “u” blocks, particularly those with H.P. property markings (including the four below with indistinct witness marks) and those with blank toggles. Although I am looking for evidence on 9-mm barrels, I would like similar information for pistols with 7.65-mm barrels for comparison.

If possible, the photos should be detailed, focused close-ups with high resolution and show the witness marks as well as the serial number and suffix (if present) on the bottom of the barrel. If they are too large to post, please email them to me rather than shrinking them to meet forum limits. In addition, please submit photos (preferred) or descriptions of any additional barrel or receiver markings such as crown/N proofs, Weimar proof eagle, eagle/WaA66, eagle/H, eagle/33, eagle/6, PTV/eagle or TP/eagle. Also, please include adequate information to identify the pistol such as any police markings or sear/mag safeties, caliber, barrel length, GERMANY stamp, etc.

Dwight Gruber has reviewed a draft of this post and is also very interested in resolving this issue. This request for information may be considered a joint request from both of us.

[Don M]

This pistol discussed in http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=34565. Witness mark is misaligned.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...1&d=1437143276

[DonVoigt]

I'll post my close ups here , I like this forum's picture loading better than the GB one.

All pistols are police with the exception of 9803 s which is Weimar Navy N.91.
Pistol 3768 r is not serial number marked on the barrel, but is a police modified '29 comm. with simson barrel and TP marking.

I have also added a t block, that I snatched somewhere; also a police marked pistol with sear and mag safety, and L.G. on the grip.

Don and Dwight,
It would be interesting to hear what you make of these as posted and what you expect or don't expect to see.

[Don M]

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

Don and Dwight, It would be interesting to hear what you make of these as posted and what you expect or don't expect to see.

Don, I can't speak for Dwight but I would prefer to wait and see what story a substantial amount of data reveals.

Thanks very much for your contributions.

[Don M]

I'm embarrassed. I am trying to sort the received information into a format I can analyze and find I have saved a very nice photo of 5816t but cannot locate any information about it or who submitted it. Could the author please identify himself and either point me to or provide info on blank or DWM toggle, police or no, etc.? It's probably staring me in the face and I can't see it.

[DonVoigt]

Originally Posted by Don M

I'm embarrassed. I am trying to sort the received information into a format I can analyze and find I have saved a very nice photo of 5816t but cannot locate any information about it or who submitted it. Could the author please identify himself and either point me to or provide info on blank or DWM toggle, police or no, etc.? It's probably staring me in the face and I can't see it.

Don,
I saved them from an auction or for sale ad.
Don't know who now but here are some more pictures.
There is no view from the top, so no Idea on the toggle,
but the L.G.322. marking must be Landjaegeri , right?

[Don M]

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

Don,
I saved them from an auction or for sale ad.
Don't know who now but here are some more pictures.
There is no view from the top, so no Idea on the toggle,
but the L.G.322. marking must be Landjaegeri , right?

Aha! Thanks. Yes, it's Landjägerei Gumbinnen. Too bad there's no top view.

[Edward Tinker]

No empirical evidence but I believe that yes, they made them in 9mm

As the blank toggle / Riff lugers were made in 9mm. Who made the Iranian lugers? Was that DWM or Mauser?

When was the last batch of dutch Navy lugers? Mauser I think, but were there some DWM in the late 20's?

[skeeter4206]

Here is a better photo of H.P. 471 luger SN 7225U



Also since the H.P. luger was in discussion I attached a pic of H.P. 54 SN 1857h

[Dwight Gruber]

For the record, here is my submission to the 9mm witness mark fest.



4331u is a Rif blank toggle police pistol. It has only the full suite of army acceptance and proof, no c/N.

Since we are discussing witness mark evidence, it occurred to me to examine the Alphabet Commercial Lugers with original 7,65mm barrels which I have on hand.



It appears that what is understood as a complete, proper witness mark is not characteristic of Alphabet Commercial Lugers. I did not expect this result. Haphazard witness marking goes clear back to the i suffix range, although I did not prepare any of these for presentation. It is necessary to go clear back to Old Model and New Model Parabellums and Imperial army P08s to see what proper witness marking looks like.

The reason for non-standard witness marking on 7,65mm Alphabet Commercials is not clear. What is clear, is that witness marks are ultimately not useful for determining the originality of 9mm barrels on police Lugers in the s, t, and u suffix range.

--Dwight

[Don M]

(I thought I posted this at the same time I posted it on Still's forum. I guess I forgot to hit the right button.)

First, I wish to sincerely thank Dwight and all who have contributed and/or participated in this discussion. I agree with Dwight that everyone should continue to ask the "old" questions. Almost nothing about this hobby is absolutely certain and new information or fresh eyes are always improving our understanding.

Reluctantly, I agree with Dwight that witness marks are of little use in this study. As a case in point, I have attached a photos of the witness mark on my 9-mm DWM P08 3299q with Polizeischule marking P.M.477. According to Still (Weimar Lugers, p. 15), this pistol was manufactured in 1927. Years ago, Dwight and I argued about this mark back and forth. I strongly felt the witness mark indicated an original barrel but he disagreed. Since then, I have learned more and now believe it is a replacement as evidenced by the small eagle (Simson?) above the serial number and the lack of a letter suffix. This was the first but certainly not the only instance of "Dwight's right!"

As for the original question, "Did DWM/BKIW Resume Manufacture of 9-mm P08s in the late 1920s?", the answer is "Yes." The Dutch Navy Contract pistols and the 9-mm pistols and barrels shipped by BKIW to Mauser in early 1930 establish this convincingly.

An ancillary question is "Did DWM manufacture 9-mm pistols for the Rif contract?" I believe the answer is "Very Probably." DWM was permitted to manufacture and export 7.65-mm Parabellums throughout the 1920s. If the Rif pistols were 7.65-mm, there would have been no need for the subterfuge of blank toggles. (The possible exception would be if the customer for these pistols was considered politically sensitive.)

The other question is "Did BKIW manufacture 9-mm P08s for the German police in the late 1920s?" I would say "Probably." Beginning in 1927, the police armory at the Polizeischule für Technik und Verkehr (PTV) became the central purchasing and repair facility for Prussian and later all German police weapons despite the IMKK prohibition. This facility would have been the one to rebarrel 7.65-mm Parabellums. It used the PTV/eagle stamp on replacement barrels. There are many 1928-29 manufacture police 9-mm P08s without this stamp, suggesting they came from the factory that way.

[Dwight Gruber]

Copyright © 2015 Dwight Gruber

Re-phrased for analytical consideration, the question is:

Did or did not DWM assemble Luger pistols in 1928-1930 with originally-installed 9mm barrels, and how can this be determined or refuted?

As a collector and historian (and invited co-conspirator in this discussion’s instigation) my conservative opinion has always been that, in accordance with the Versailles Treaty, DWM/BKIW did not manufacture P08s with 9mm barrels; that the German police and other organizations purchased 7,65mm P08s and had them rebarrelled in close collaboration with DWM.

The discussion and study over the last couple of weeks has been, to say the least, enlightening. What follows are some considerations, observations, and responses to the original thesis, leading to my conclusions.

Manufacturing Contract vs. Purchasing Contract
Luger collectors indiscriminately refer to institutional purchases of Lugers as “contracts”. But, there is a fine distinction to be made when discussing these. DWM actually participated in two types of contracts, manufacturing and purchasing.

Manufacturing contracts are exemplified by the official orders made by the Swiss, Dutch, Bulgarian (New Model and P08), and most other national military organizations. Pistols in these contracts were made to order. The singular characteristic of these contracts are their separate serial number sequences, and the consecutive order of those numbers. They almost always lack German proof stamps. Consideration of specific physical features required by a contractee is unnecessary here.

Purchasing contracts are simply purchase requisitions supplied out of ongoing DWM commercial production, such as the Finnish and Rif acquisitions, the U.S. Test pistols, the pistols procured on behalf of the German police, and other numerous small, identifiable group acquisitions salted within commercial production. The singular characteristic of these pistols is their serial numbering within the DWM commercial numbering order. Their serial numbers are often not consecutive, and they bear German civilian proof marks according to their era.

Witness Marks
Witness marks are commonly accepted to be a useful characteristic for establishing the original or replacement status of a Luger barrel. This principle is adequate for early commercial and Imperial military Lugers.

During the discussion of this topic, many correspondents posted pictures of the witness marks on their Alphabet Commercial Lugers, and many more were observed. The pictures can be reviewed in the earlier posts here, and the time and effort taken by these collectors is truly appreciated.

The surprising result of this survey is, witness marks on late DWM commercial production the pistols under discussion were almost universally stamped in a non-systematic, almost haphazard way, whether the pistol is a civilian gun or police or other contracted pistol. This encompasses the entire span of production from 1921 to 1930. As a result the witness mark cannot be used as an identifying characteristic, and their consideration has no further place in my conclusions.

Versailles Treaty
The Treaty of Versailles was a comprehensive and detailed prescription for the conditions under which Germany was to be allowed continued existence as a nation, including both the constitution of its armed forces and its domestic affairs. But, the treaty provisions central to this discussion are very brief.

Article 162: The only specific mention of the police and gendarmerie in the Treaty proscribes the size of their forces.

Article 168: “The manufacture of arms, munitions, or any war material, shall only be carried out in factories or works the locations of which shall be communicated to or approved by [the Allied Powers], and the number of which they retain the right to restrict.

“Within three months [ ], all other establishments for the manufacture, preparation, storage, or design of [war materials] shall be closed down.”

Article 170: [ ]…the manufacture for, and export to, foreign countries of arms, munitions and war materials of every kind [shall be strictly prohibited].

Section IV, Articles 203-210: establish and empower the Interallied Military Control Commission (IMKK).

Article 211: “After the expiration of [a specified period], the German laws must have been modified and shall be maintained by the German Government in conformation with [the treaty].

“Within the same period all administration or other measures for execution of [the treaty] must have been taken.”

According to the Versailles Treaty, at the end of military control (decommissioning of the IMKK), continued monitoring of treaty compliance was to be taken over by the Council of the League of Nations. The German Foreign Ministry worked assiduously toward the removal of the IMKK; and, once removed, did everything within its power to assure that the Council had no reason to intervene in German affairs. The export of munitions and equipment was specifically forbidden in the Versailles treaty, and continuous German contravention of this provision was one of the longest-standing--and ultimately unresolved--impediments to removal of the IMKK.

The IMKK ceased their operations at the end of January, 1927. This was a political expedient of relief to both the British and German governments, and objected to by the French. On July 22, 1927, the German government passed requisite laws specifying the war materials which were prohibited from manufacture, import, and export.

DWM Post-war Production
In 1920 DWM resumed production of P08s under contract to the army. In 1921 the IMKK ordered them to cease all military production, as a violation of Treaty Article 168. The P08 (and other service pistols such as the C-96) in the military caliber of 9mm with a barrel length of 100mm or greater, were considered to be “arms, munitions, or war material” under the treaty. New manufacture of these pistols was banned. The proscription was not applied to such pistols already in use; these were presumed to be dealt with by the requirement to surrender current military weapons to the IMKK.

DWM was permitted to continue producing P08 pistols in cal. 7,65mm with barrels less than 100mm for the “commercial” market. DWM produced as many as 100 of these commercialized pistols a day for delivery to the police, who converted them to standard P08 configuration by re-barrelling them to 9mm and replacing the appropriate springs. Contemporary police manuals describe both 9mm P08 and 7,65mm Parabellum pistols in the police inventory at least through 1928.

Despite the provisions of the Versailles Treaty and German law, 815 of the finished pistols which were included in the DWM production facilities shipped to Mauser in 1930 were standard P08s in 9mm.

Dutch Army and Navy Contracts
In 1927 and 1928, DWM entered into manufacturing contracts with the Dutch army and navy. The 1927 army contract resulted in the shipment of 3,280 “Pistool model 1911” (New Model Parabellum-style, the KOL-marked pistols) in 9mm, in August and September, 1928. The 1928 navy contract resulted in the shipment of 1,484 “Automatic Pistol no. 1” (P08-style) in 9mm, delivered in small quantities between 1928-1930. These contracts were entered into in clear violation of Treaty Article 170, banning foreign military equipment sales.

The physical evidence of the c/N proofs on both contracts, and indeterminate witness marks observed on pistols of the navy contract, demonstrate that their manufacture followed the contemporaneous manufacturing methods of the Alphabet Commercial pistols.

Rif Contract Pistols
The Rif rebellion of 1921-26 was actually the third Rif war against Spanish colonialism in a struggle which had begun as early as 1860. After WWI the Rifian tribes waged an ever more successful guerilla campaign against the Spanish army, and in 1921 the largest and most successful conflicts in the rebellion were led by Abd el-Krim.

In 1922 Krim declared a Rifian state, with all the trappings of a modern nation including diplomatic contact with foreign nations. The Rif had a small standing army augmented by thousands of irregular tribal auxiliaries, armed with surplus weapons, weapons captured during phenomenally successful military campaigns, and arms and ammunition as modern as could be obtained from foreign nations.

The Rif war is considered to have ended with Krim’s surrender on May 27, 1926, but strong and effective resistance continued and the Spanish did not consider the region “pacified” until July of 1927.

The 1927-1928 production estimation for the Rif pistols makes it plausible that the production contract was entered into some time earlier. In light of subsequent production, DWM’s decision to omit their manufacturing hallmark plausibly dates the acceptance of the Rif contract to a time when the IMKK was still in the picture. The only reason DWM would have had to fear IMKK retribution was if the sales contract was for pistols of 9mm military caliber, thus violating the Versailles Treaty’s prohibition of arms, munitions and war materials export.

The characteristic presence of DWM’s manufacturing hallmark on Parabellum pistols and P08s, was in accordance with long-standing German law requiring firearms makers to identify their products. Its absence on the Rif pistols was a decision taken by DWM in contravention of that law.

The absence of the DWM hallmark gave DWM pro forma plausible deniability in case of subsequent discovery. There was one other active P08 manufacturer (Simson), and lots of surplus pistols and parts floating around and armorers capable of dealing with them. The c/N commercial proof would certainly identify the pistols as German manufacture, but the proofs themselves would not be exclusively identified with DWM.

During this discussion the question was raised as to why DWM continued to make blank toggle pistols, since the Rif rebellion had been defeated. Despite the circumstances of the Rif rebellion, during 1927-1928 DWM was fulfilling a previously-negotiated contract with decisions made at the time of the agreement, and had no reason (and perhaps no legal or contractual recourse) to unilaterally alter it.

The blank toggle P08s, undeliverable because their contractee no longer existed, remained in DWMs inventory until they were acquired by the German police.

Proof Marks and Acceptance Marks
The following statistics are based on reports in the Commercial Database. Not all entries report all details, so this should be understood as a general overview. There are non-police pistols to be found scattered among these ranges.

Alphabet Commercial pistols in the s suffix range are universally reported with c/N commercial proofs. At sn 3241s reports begin of the WaA66 stamps on the right receiver.

Many of the reports in the s suffix range are police pistols in 9mm. Between sn 8345s and sn 9931s the reports are exclusively of Reichsmarine marked pistols in 9mm. These all have commercial c/N proofs, without the WaA66 waffenamt.

Alphabet Commercial pistols in the t suffix range are universally reported with c/N commercial proofs. An overwhelming number of them are reported with WaA66 stamps on the right receiver.

Most of these pistols are reported with blank toggles; these are intermixed with DWM toggles. An overwhelming number of them are police pistols in 9mm, nearly all unit marked to the Landjägerei.

Alphabet Commercial pistols in the u suffix range are reported with c/N commercial proofs until sn 1198u. This serial number begins the range of u suffix pistols which are almost exclusively reported with a suite of three army acceptance and proof stamps on the right receiver, and no c/N commercial proofs.

Almost all u suffix pistols are reported with blank toggles, with an occasional DWM toggle salted in. These are all police pistols in 9mm, nearly all unit marked to the Landjägerei.

The army proof set, the blank toggles, and the police pistols all vanish abruptly at sn 6034u, to be replaced mostly by specialty production in 7,65mm and with c/N commercial proofs. This extends into the v suffix range, where DWM production ends at approximately sn 559v. There is one major exception in this late-u—early-v suffix range: all the reported examples of Hessische Polizei (H.P. )new production, in 9mm and c/N proofed, are found here.

Negotiations for the transfer of DWM Luger production to Mauser began in January 1930, and the actual transfer began in early February. It is not clear whether or not any production actually occurred in Berlin during that brief time in 1930.

The eagle/WaA66 stamps are found on the right receiver, the position specified for army acceptance markings since the 1910 army instructions for the manufacture of the P08, and carried out through the end of WWII.

Many of these pistols are found with the additional stamp of a small, almost vestigial eagle, or an eagle/H. Although these stamps are in the position indicating power-proof, the pistols display no other army power proofs.

Enduring questions remain about the purpose of these right-receiver stamps. It is clear that an army acceptance officer was stationed at DWM, but it is not at all clear for whom he was accepting these pistols, or why? The only reason for the certification of army acceptance would be if these pistols were produced to the military 9mm specification. The pistols were not acquired by the army, and the police had no need for army acceptance.

The range of 5,000 or so pistols with the three-stamp suite, and whatever reason might exist for them, is even more mysterious. On the pistols with three stamps, the third stamp is almost always an eagle power-proof stamp, in the style adopted by the German government dating from 1936-1939. A matching stamp is found on the barrel in the customary position for power-proof. The anachronistic nature of this stamp is simply imponderable.

Hessische Polizei (H.P.)Pistols
The P08s sold to the Hessische Polizei do not require specific consideration. Production of pistols ultimately destined for the police in Hesse followed established practice. The absence of barrel witness marks on some examples, and the absence of the WaA66 acceptance marks, may reveal something about DWM manufacturing practice at the bitter end of its run.

Conclusion

The principle of Occam’s Razor has been invoked to refute speculative suggestions made during this discussion. I have applied this to my own preconceptions and observations.

The greatest impediment to successful resolution of the question is the absence of documentation of DWM’s actual manufacturing practices. Without this, it is not possible to state any conclusion as a fact. My characteristically conservative approach to the circumstantial and speculative nature of this topic dictates the conditional nature of my conclusion.

I have come to conclude that the prevailing conditions inside Germany and the diplomatic negotiations between Germany and the Allies regarding the Versailles treaty and the IMKK; combined with the recognized characteristics of the s, t, and u suffix ranges of the DWM so-called “Alphabet Commercial” variation; make it plausible, and indeed likely, that DWM went into full production of the standard 9mm P08 between the dissolution of the IMKK and 1930.

One final consideration awaits. In “Weimar Lugers” (1993) Jan Still did the Luger collecting community an inestimable favor by rectifying the collector designations of post-war DWM commercial production. For the pistols manufactured after 1921, he devised the designation Alphabet Commercial. He separately identified the s, t, and u suffixes as 1929 DWM due to their presumed production year and preponderantly police association.

Since that time, the revelations of the blank toggle Rif contract, statistical association with the Heers Waffenamt, and dissolution of the IMKK suggest the need to revise the designated 1929 DWM production date.

The nearly simultaneous (and probably coincidental) appearance of the first blank toggle pistols and the WaA66 acceptance officer, along with the contemporaneous production run of Reichsmarine pistols in 9mm, suggest that the manufacture of Alphabet Commercial pistols from approximately sn 3200s began shortly after the January 31, 1927 dissolution of the IMKK.

Detailed rectification of the production dates for the entire Alphabet Commercial series, based on this revision, is a discussion for another time.

References
“Weimar and Early Nazi Lugers” 1993, Jan C. Still

“The Dutch Luger” 1994, Bas Martens and Guus de Vries

“The Mauser Parabellum 1930-1946” 2010, Don R. Hallock and Joop van de Kant Of supreme importance to this topic are the first-person accounts of August Weiss, foreman of Parabellum production at DWM and subsequently foreman of handgun production at Mauser, selections of which are found in this book.

“Police Lugers” 2012, Edward B. Tinker and Dwight Gruber

“Stresemann and the Rearmament of Germany” 1954, Hans W. Gatzke an excellent book examining the realities of Weimar Germany related to the arms clauses of the Versailles treaty. It can be read online https://archive.org/stream/streseman...40mbp_djvu.txt
And thanks to Ed Tinker for reminding me of this crucial resource

http://www.historynet.com/rif-war.htm 2006, Douglas Porch, military historian and expert on North Africa. A colorful and succinct history of the Rif rebellion.
http://balagan.info/timeline-for-the...if-war-1920-25 2002, 2013, Steven Thomas
http://luger.gunboards.com/forum.php
http://forum.lugerforum.com/

Don Maus, correspondence
Joop van de Kant, correspondence

[DonVoigt]

Dwight,
Well presented.

The conclusion that DWM did produce 9mm P 08 s from 1927 to 1930 is simple and logically follows from the evidence you analysed.

Acceptance of DWM production in 9mm makes convoluted scenarios for explaining the s,t,u pistols un-necessary- as you ably point out.

I do believe from reading many threads and posts that some of us had already started accepting that the '29 Commercials as Jan called them could easily date to 1928-9, or 1930. Extending to late '27 is not much of a reach.

Thanks for your effort and writing.

[Don M]

Outstanding analysis and presentation, Dwight!