Swiss 1906 safety pedal issue: resolved

P. Octo · 04-07-2015, 05:31 AM

Hello,
I am a new member to this forum, based in France, and mainly a Bench Rest shooter while I was working. Now that I am retired, I can spend more time on other favourites; I recently acquired a 1906 Swiss #52xx, hardly ever fired, from a person whose father had passed away. Truly a thing of beauty.
But the safety pedal was always in the firing position against the grip, it would come up only with the safety lever in the "safe" position. As the condition of the pistol is excellent and I am not reknowned for my dexterity, I held off from intrusive dismantling but I could see that the blade spring was holding the pedal against the grip. I thought that it might need a pin pusher to dismantle the pedal to get a better look and I was waiting upon acceptance to your forum before doing anything rash.
Yet, it bothered me and, yesterday, I finally lifted the pedal gently with my fingers and replaced the blade spring under it. Lo and behold! Everything back to normal.
It occured to me that the previous owner may have done that on purpose.
Anyway, I have a question: if a round is chambered and the safety lever is not on "safe", the pedal prevents the trigger from being used but could the round be fired if the pistol falls straight onto its barrel, for instance, simply under the force of the firing pin?
The reason I ask is that I was recently trying different brands of .22LR in a Walther PPS and the range officer having called a halt to fire I put the safety on...and the gun discharged. Thank God, 54 years of shooting and adherence to safety rules proved their worth: the gun was pointing towards the targets and held firmly. I recovered the spent case and couldn't see any mark with naked eyes; when I used a X12 magnifying glass under sunlight, I could see a very faint indentation made by the firing pin that had been thrown forward by the hammer stricking the block that comes up with the safety, between the hammer and the firing pin.
I tried to reproduce the problem at home but to no avail. Yet, it happenned once and could have been dangerous. It made me realise that as long as the firing pin is not blocked, the gun is not really safe.
Looking forward to your opinions.

mrerick · 04-07-2015, 08:36 AM

The safety on a Luger actually blocks the movement of the sear. On the guns with grip safeties (the "pedal" you mention) there is a mechanism that interlocks it's movement (the lever on the side of the receiver) blocking you from depressing the grip safety. When the interlock is moved to the fire position, you can press in the grip safety which will then move the sear block out of the way.

A properly tight and adjusted safety on the Luger should block the sear from moving out of the way of the firing pin (actually a "striker" design, similar to many modern guns) even if the gun is dropped. as long as the safety lever is blocking the movement of the grip safety.

If the safety lever is in the fire position, it could be possible for the grip safety to move under momentum when the gun hits the ground, and also possible for the sear to dislodge and allow movement of the firing pin. Both would be unlikely but possible.

Note that it's very possible to fire a disassembled Luger by manually pressing in the sear when the canon assembly is off of the frame. Always verify it's unloaded before disassembly.

Take your Walther PPS back to the dealer and request that they repair it's problem.

There is a writeup about the safety of the PPS here:

http://www.waltherforums.com/forum/f...ervations.html

Excessive dry firing can damage the plastic striker guide. Could this be the problem?

P. Octo · 04-07-2015, 10:28 AM

Thanks: you confirmed what I thought. This is unlikely to happen with the Luger. I will read thoroughly the information about the PPS but it seems to refer more to a modern version; mine is a 1950s' long barrelled sport version
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mrerick · 04-07-2015, 11:05 AM

That is most likely the PP / PPK mechanism.

These are known for the potential of damage to the safety cylinder cracking, particularly if you use the safety lever as a de-cocker.

There is a good chance that there has been damage to this part. It should be checked over.

Marc

04-07-2015, 05:31 AM	#1
P. Octo User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Cannes, France Posts: 32 Thanks: 20 Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts	Swiss 1906 safety pedal issue: resolved Hello, I am a new member to this forum, based in France, and mainly a Bench Rest shooter while I was working. Now that I am retired, I can spend more time on other favourites; I recently acquired a 1906 Swiss #52xx, hardly ever fired, from a person whose father had passed away. Truly a thing of beauty. But the safety pedal was always in the firing position against the grip, it would come up only with the safety lever in the "safe" position. As the condition of the pistol is excellent and I am not reknowned for my dexterity, I held off from intrusive dismantling but I could see that the blade spring was holding the pedal against the grip. I thought that it might need a pin pusher to dismantle the pedal to get a better look and I was waiting upon acceptance to your forum before doing anything rash. Yet, it bothered me and, yesterday, I finally lifted the pedal gently with my fingers and replaced the blade spring under it. Lo and behold! Everything back to normal. It occured to me that the previous owner may have done that on purpose. Anyway, I have a question: if a round is chambered and the safety lever is not on "safe", the pedal prevents the trigger from being used but could the round be fired if the pistol falls straight onto its barrel, for instance, simply under the force of the firing pin? The reason I ask is that I was recently trying different brands of .22LR in a Walther PPS and the range officer having called a halt to fire I put the safety on...and the gun discharged. Thank God, 54 years of shooting and adherence to safety rules proved their worth: the gun was pointing towards the targets and held firmly. I recovered the spent case and couldn't see any mark with naked eyes; when I used a X12 magnifying glass under sunlight, I could see a very faint indentation made by the firing pin that had been thrown forward by the hammer stricking the block that comes up with the safety, between the hammer and the firing pin. I tried to reproduce the problem at home but to no avail. Yet, it happenned once and could have been dangerous. It made me realise that as long as the firing pin is not blocked, the gun is not really safe. Looking forward to your opinions.

04-07-2015, 08:36 AM	#2
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,907 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,108 Times in 1,509 Posts	The safety on a Luger actually blocks the movement of the sear. On the guns with grip safeties (the "pedal" you mention) there is a mechanism that interlocks it's movement (the lever on the side of the receiver) blocking you from depressing the grip safety. When the interlock is moved to the fire position, you can press in the grip safety which will then move the sear block out of the way. A properly tight and adjusted safety on the Luger should block the sear from moving out of the way of the firing pin (actually a "striker" design, similar to many modern guns) even if the gun is dropped. as long as the safety lever is blocking the movement of the grip safety. If the safety lever is in the fire position, it could be possible for the grip safety to move under momentum when the gun hits the ground, and also possible for the sear to dislodge and allow movement of the firing pin. Both would be unlikely but possible. Note that it's very possible to fire a disassembled Luger by manually pressing in the sear when the canon assembly is off of the frame. Always verify it's unloaded before disassembly. Take your Walther PPS back to the dealer and request that they repair it's problem. There is a writeup about the safety of the PPS here: http://www.waltherforums.com/forum/f...ervations.html Excessive dry firing can damage the plastic striker guide. Could this be the problem? __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

04-07-2015, 11:05 AM	#4
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,907 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,108 Times in 1,509 Posts	That is most likely the PP / PPK mechanism. These are known for the potential of damage to the safety cylinder cracking, particularly if you use the safety lever as a de-cocker. There is a good chance that there has been damage to this part. It should be checked over. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

04-07-2015, 10:28 AM	#3
P. Octo User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Cannes, France Posts: 32 Thanks: 20 Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts	Thanks: you confirmed what I thought. This is unlikely to happen with the Luger. I will read thoroughly the information about the PPS but it seems to refer more to a modern version; mine is a 1950s' long barrelled sport version