Production #'s?

seventwenty · 01-11-2015, 04:56 PM

I have what I've been told is a DWM 1923 commercial.
S/N: 79560
All matching except for nothing on mag
Crown over N
Germany
Cal: 30

I read where there were approximately 15,000 of the 1923 commercials made.

My question is "How many were 9mm and how many were 30 cal?" Is there any info on total production #'s for this model.

Edward Tinker · 01-11-2015, 05:00 PM

welcome twentseven

yes and no - much less 9mm made than 7.65mm for the American market (those are the ones marked, "made in germany"

1923 commercial is an older designation - not wrong just an earlier one. A serial number of 79560 is a commercial number. Look at Dwight Gruber's database and you can see how many of them are within your range.

Ed

seventwenty · 01-11-2015, 10:15 PM

It doesn't say "Made in " Germany, just Germany on the rt side of the frame. Are there some that actually fit the whole phrase? Just curious.

Thx for the reply, I'll have a look.

Thx again but the database does not contain any production #'s. I'll keep looking.

Edward Tinker · 01-11-2015, 11:09 PM

You will see them marked 'germany' or made in germany' - same thing

production numbers, well that would be extrapolated by seeing the amount of them made. i.e. they started at #1 and went up, then started being suffix letters - every 10,000 then another letter.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=31902

http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=31901

Dwight Gruber · 01-12-2015, 03:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seventwenty

Thx again but the database does not contain any production #'s. I'll keep looking.

It is a regrettable reality that the commercial database and commentary does not, and cannot, contain production numbers. The only place these figures can be found is in DWM's records, which are nowhere available. Ad hoc estimation of production numbers is pointless guesswork.

Dwight

seventwenty · 01-12-2015, 12:43 PM

Thank you Dwight. Here are the details on my Commercial if you'd like to enter them. When purchased 20 yrs ago it was advertised as a 1923 Commercial. I passed on a "Navy" for the same price thinking the 30 was more desirable/scarcer than the 9mm. Also, the Navy was pretty rough.

DWM on toggle
Serial #: 79560
Cal: 30 (7.65)
All #'s matching except for unmarked wood button mag
C/N on barrel and left frame
GESICHERT safety
Germany on rt side of frame
C/N on the 1st 2 toggle links

Hope this helps and thank you for your dedication and research.

Lugerdoc · 01-12-2015, 02:33 PM

720 et al, Since 1898 US import laws have require that foreign made products be labeled with the country of origin. It was modified in 1923 that they be mark "made in xxxx", so your pistol is what most call a M1919 commercial, since in about 1923, they switched to the military style serialization of up to 4 digits with a suffix letter. TH

01-11-2015, 05:00 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,929 Thanks: 2,028 Thanked 4,527 Times in 2,090 Posts	welcome twentseven yes and no - much less 9mm made than 7.65mm for the American market (those are the ones marked, "made in germany" 1923 commercial is an older designation - not wrong just an earlier one. A serial number of 79560 is a commercial number. Look at Dwight Gruber's database and you can see how many of them are within your range. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

01-11-2015, 11:09 PM	#4
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,929 Thanks: 2,028 Thanked 4,527 Times in 2,090 Posts	You will see them marked 'germany' or made in germany' - same thing production numbers, well that would be extrapolated by seeing the amount of them made. i.e. they started at #1 and went up, then started being suffix letters - every 10,000 then another letter. http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=31902 http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=31901 __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

01-12-2015, 12:43 PM	#6
seventwenty New User Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 3 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thank you Dwight. Here are the details on my Commercial if you'd like to enter them. When purchased 20 yrs ago it was advertised as a 1923 Commercial. I passed on a "Navy" for the same price thinking the 30 was more desirable/scarcer than the 9mm. Also, the Navy was pretty rough. DWM on toggle Serial #: 79560 Cal: 30 (7.65) All #'s matching except for unmarked wood button mag C/N on barrel and left frame GESICHERT safety Germany on rt side of frame C/N on the 1st 2 toggle links Hope this helps and thank you for your dedication and research. Last edited by seventwenty; 01-12-2015 at 02:50 PM.

01-12-2015, 02:33 PM	#7
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	720 et al, Since 1898 US import laws have require that foreign made products be labeled with the country of origin. It was modified in 1923 that they be mark "made in xxxx", so your pistol is what most call a M1919 commercial, since in about 1923, they switched to the military style serialization of up to 4 digits with a suffix letter. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

01-11-2015, 04:56 PM	#1
seventwenty New User Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 3 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Production #'s? I have what I've been told is a DWM 1923 commercial. S/N: 79560 All matching except for nothing on mag Crown over N Germany Cal: 30 I read where there were approximately 15,000 of the 1923 commercials made. My question is "How many were 9mm and how many were 30 cal?" Is there any info on total production #'s for this model.

01-11-2015, 10:15 PM	#3
seventwenty New User Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 3 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	It doesn't say "Made in " Germany, just Germany on the rt side of the frame. Are there some that actually fit the whole phrase? Just curious. Thx for the reply, I'll have a look. Thx again but the database does not contain any production #'s. I'll keep looking.