22 conversion kits

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

gorilla glue?

Or drill it for a little wire lanyard...

[Edward Tinker]

Originally Posted by sheepherder

Or drill it for a little wire lanyard...

whatever and thats not the kids saying of whatever but whatever works

[alanint]

Erma is no longer in business. Any kits or parts need to be scrounged from existing stocks.

[sheepherder]

Took it to the range this morning. Pic below. If you look real close at the target, in the 10-ring, you'll see...Nothing. I missed the paper completely.

Crappy cell phone pic. Usually takes good pics (3.2Mpixel).

Action wouldn't move/shoot with ejector in place. Taking it out, I could shoot single-shot. Had other problems; re-thinking my original idea.

The bear definitely ate me today...

[kurusu]

Originally Posted by sheepherder

Took it to the range this morning. Pic below. If you look real close at the target, in the 10-ring, you'll see...Nothing. I missed the paper completely.

Any ideia where they hit, high; low; left; right?
If they're consistent you're in business.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by alanint

Erma is no longer in business. Any kits or parts need to be scrounged from existing stocks.

I'm not going to try modifying any Erma parts. The complete 'kit' is too valuable.

Did Erma make a specific 'kit' for the 70's Mauser Lugers???

[kurusu]

Originally Posted by sheepherder

Did Erma make a specific 'kit' for the 70's Mauser Lugers???

I don't think so. Erma was already half dead when Mauser gave a second life to Lugers.
I think Vlim should be the best source for accurate information about that.

[ithacaartist]

Originally Posted by sheepherder

I'm not going to try modifying any Erma parts. The complete 'kit' is too valuable.

Did Erma make a specific 'kit' for the 70's Mauser Lugers???

Rich, what would you charge to reproduce the rearmost piece for this kit--the one with the sight notch, buffer bolt & spring, thru which the replacement rear toggle axle goes? There's a kit on GB I'm interested in, and it is missing that part, no mag for it, but a MecGar included.

My take on what these best fit is that the examples available to Erma at that time were the 70s' Mauser production. If likely used as a basis for dimensions of a kit, then those would be the best guns for fit.

I could send you up one of my mags for the SE 08 kit to try out. As I said, one of the ears shows up in the right place to act as their ejector. You could remove the original ejector and use the mag for this earlier system in your setup. If this solves the ejection problem, it sounds like you'd be all set for shooting, if everything else continues to behave properly. Sarco has new springs for the SE 08/2, and some other misc. parts.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by ithacaartist

Rich, what would you charge...

Hundreds of dinars...

PM sent!

[ithacaartist]

I'll get to the PM in a moment, didn't notice it at the top. The reason I came back to the thread this time is to comment further about your kit's extractor. And a dinar is still $0.001, I hope!

It has the same system of staying in place as it does in the KGP series by Erma. Several of mine have thrown their extractors during use--or simply arrived without them. The latest was replaced upon the pistol's arrival and was gone at the end of the first test mag. I've been puzzling over just what, mechanically, is going on to cause this. It's not 100% the design because some throw the extractors and many do not. One difference I can see is for the potential for tolerances to add up with bad results in the way the breech block, with the extractor's tip leading the way on the journey to battery, might go awry. The extractor's tip must clear the notch in the receiver, and I'm wondering if there is enough play of 1)the breech block within the upper and 2) the extractor within its slot in the breech block, for the extractor to be offset enough in relation to the extractor cut to jam into it when the action is slamming back home. My plan is to relieve--very slightly--the sharp corners on the front of the extractor on the worst offender I have, then test, test, test, to become confident one way or the other as to the results of the "adjustment". To be on the safe side, I might shoot from within a big cardboard box to keep the flying parts around where I can find them. A backyard range with grass is anathema to finding spent brass, let alone a tiny piece of blued steel.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by ithacaartist

One difference I can see is for the potential for tolerances to add up with bad results in the way the breech block...

The extractor is a sloppy fit. The bottom of the extractor has a round button that fits in a round recess at the bottom of the extractor cut. The button is bigger in diameter than the slot...Or appears to be...The slot is actually wide enough for the extractor to slip out the front, instead of straight up, as it appears it was designed to.

It does hit the slot in the chamber face when closed. If the slot was deepened, it would either cut into the chamber or into the barrel insert. It might be a solution to trim back the snout of the extractor so it doesn't hit the slope in the insert.

[ithacaartist]

Originally Posted by sheepherder

The extractor is a sloppy fit. The bottom of the extractor has a round button that fits in a round recess at the bottom of the extractor cut. The button is bigger in diameter than the slot...Or appears to be...The slot is actually wide enough for the extractor to slip out the front, instead of straight up, as it appears it was designed to.

It does hit the slot in the chamber face when closed. If the slot was deepened, it would either cut into the chamber or into the barrel insert. It might be a solution to trim back the snout of the extractor so it doesn't hit the slope in the insert.

I was referring more to hitting the sides on the way in. I've noticed the same thing you've noted, and will consider swiping the front of the extractor across the grinding wheel a couple of times so it doesn't jump up like that when the breech block is fully in battery. I'm not sure it influences the flying out deal, though.

The cheap-o zinc Ermas had an arrangement very similar to the P.08, with a vertical spring under the tail, and a pin that holds the danged thing in--although the extractor itself has a very different profile.

The Erma extractor we're discussing is mounted most precariously. What retains it is the tension from the spring and plunger behind, pressing it into the front top edge of the vertical hole into which the extractor's "tail" drops. The swelling below where the plunger's tip rests would, combined with the forward tension from the spring, tend to keep it in place. The guy that produced a round of home made CNC replacements said he deepened the little dimple there. When the extractor rocks up while hopping over the round's rim, it seems to me that this method of retention of the part gets a little dicey. A deeper dimple might actually help.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by ithacaartist

I've noticed the same thing you've noted, and will consider swiping the front of the extractor across the grinding wheel a couple of times so it doesn't jump up like that when the breech block is fully in battery. I'm not sure it influences the flying out deal, though.

The Erma extractor we're discussing is mounted most precariously. What retains it is the tension from the spring and plunger behind, pressing it into the front top edge of the vertical hole into which the extractor's "tail" drops. The swelling below where the plunger's tip rests would, combined with the forward tension from the spring, tend to keep it in place. The guy that produced a round of home made CNC replacements said he deepened the little dimple there. When the extractor rocks up while hopping over the round's rim, it seems to me that this method of retention of the part gets a little dicey. A deeper dimple might actually help.

I've given this a bit of thought, and think what happens is like you say: When the beveled front of the extractor hits the slanted cut in the barrel insert, it is levered up and back at the same time. As you point out, only the tail of the plunger keeps it in the breech cut. The back of the breech cut is a drilled hole, and the cut is a few thousandths less than the diameter of the hole. The extractor has that button on the back/bottom that should be greater dia than the cut, but isn't quite.

I think that John was right about that first shot being too powerful [Remington Viper 22, no FPS or pressure rating on the box] that when the extractor rebounded and hit the insert slant, it jarred the extractor button up far enough to disengage from the bottom of the drilled hole [the dimple], and it sailed forward...

The basic design seems OK; it's just sloppy German workmanship!

[Edward Tinker]

hey, if I can pay in dinars I am set. Heck, I brought home a couple hundred from Iraq

single shot is a lot better than it was

[ithacaartist]

If all else fails, there's always the mini-lanyard!

[sheepherder]

For posterity, here's the parts schematic...

And an "Instruction Manual" for what must be an early SE08/2...

[ithacaartist]

Here is a German source http://www.germanguns.de/export/guns...ngen/ews08.jpg for parts for these kits. Their pricing is in USD, so I think they export without a problem. Whoever bought that incomplete kit may find his missing components here. Maybe not, as plenty of parts pages are not updated very well, if at all. I think I will look into what they may have.

BTW, I just bought a raft of Erma internals and other stuff for many models. I won't know exactly what until they arrive this week sometime. I'll start a thread about this enterprise as soon as I know what I have, but I will definitely be looking to sell any and all of it.

[ithacaartist]

Originally Posted by sheepherder

I need to find something between 'Standard Velocity' (the CCI 'Target') and the 'Hyper-Velocity' (Remington Viper). Logic would have me think that 'High Velocity' should be somewhere in-between but none of the boxes [except CCI] have velocity figures on the box...

... Oh, yeah - I cut paper 7 times out of the 20!

CCI MiniMags 40 gr. RN = 1235 fps at muzzle. Remington Targer, 1200 fps. Or maybe lose a couple of coils of the action spring!

I had to search around in the data provided by various sellers, etc. online to compile a list of muzzle velocities for the various .22lr 40 gr. rounds one might be able to buy. Sorry, I can't find that list at the moment, but one could reconstruct it with a half hour's work.

[Edward Tinker]

Rich, what velocity are you looking for?

I have a range I could / would send you?

But I need dog food too if you go out....

[Diver6106]

I bid on the kit with the rear block-site missing and no 22LR mag, figuring I could find a part, but it went over my price. I previously bought an Erma Erfurt kit for $400 missing the cardboard box, but complete with toggle group, magazine and two barrel cover/ spacers for the 7" 22LR barrel insert, one for a 4" and one for a 6" 9mm barrel. I've seen other kits for $400 complete, so if it is missing the mag, as this one was (a mecgar 9mm mag won't do), it isn't worth it. A 22LR mag to fit a standard P-08 runs $300-400. I also bought a frame with barrel for my 22LR kit, see 2787 in unit ID for pictures.