Help on Luger

wlyon · 08-14-2014, 11:24 AM

Need help with a luger. I would like a few answers before I sell this. Also approximate value. It is outside my collecting interests and I can't seem to find answers. Thank you.

1921 Police. Serial number 8715. 9mm. Ar A4 and Dove Wa A4 proofs. Is this normal to have both proofs?

No mag or sear safety.
3 unit marks. 2 crossed out. SB3914 left -
(see Don Maus "History Writ in Steel" page 94 and 95).
No number on firing pin - has C/B proof?
No number on hold open - normal?
Very good bore.
Blue 80% - Straw 80%.
Value ?

Don M · 08-14-2014, 12:02 PM

Bill, everything looks correct to me, including the mixed ArA4 and WaA4 acceptance stamps. This is common on early 1921 production when the inspection organization changed names.

Some may question the lack of sear and mag safeties on this gun. The format of the lined-out marking indicates the pistol was assigned to a barracked Hundertschaft. These pistols were exempted from the 1933 order to add these safeties as their owners were to be transferred to the military.

I will let others comment on value but will say that this is a rather unique pistol as discussed in HWIS. Its first marking, believed to be 2 RH 304, apparently predates the 1922 police marking instructions. This is an extremely rare Berlin police marking.

Edward Tinker · 08-14-2014, 12:46 PM

Didn't Dwight do a request for these early 1920's lugers on whether they had sn on the firing pin 4 or 5 yrs ago? http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=14346

Hold open, not sure... I would expect a number even if it started as a commercial but the markings on the right sound army / police all the way.

I would think to a average collector of lugers, the value would be lessened by the FP and HO not being numbered, so $950 to $1100 ? To someone who understands what Don said, IMO $1200-$1300 - the bluing is very good except for a few areas, so that might make it lower on the value to some?

Ed

Sergio Natali · 08-14-2014, 03:38 PM

Bill

I haven't gor one thenth of your experience and knwledge on Lugers, but come on all together it's quite a nice Luger, an honest Police Luger that just for comparison here in Italy wouldn't cost less than the equivalent of about USD 1700.00/ 1900.00

only my 2 cents.

Sergio

lugerholsterrepair · 08-14-2014, 04:46 PM

No number on firing pin - has C/B proof? Bill, Is the firing pin fluted? Also is there a number on the toggle pin? Grips numbered?

wlyon · 08-14-2014, 08:42 PM

Jerry
Firing pin is fluted. Grips last two digits of serial number. Toggle pin numbered. Hi and a hug to Ellie. Bill

Edward Tinker · 08-14-2014, 09:05 PM

toggle pin would not be numbered until the early 1930's so numbered or unnumbered would be correct

lugerholsterrepair · 08-14-2014, 10:35 PM

Bill, The reason I ask about these is that many earlier Luger's were refitted by Mauser to include a fluted firing pin, numbered toggle pin. These are sure signs it was sent to Mauser for this work.

08-14-2014, 11:24 AM	#1
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,631 Thanks: 3,170 Thanked 2,555 Times in 954 Posts	Help on Luger Need help with a luger. I would like a few answers before I sell this. Also approximate value. It is outside my collecting interests and I can't seem to find answers. Thank you. 1921 Police. Serial number 8715. 9mm. Ar A4 and Dove Wa A4 proofs. Is this normal to have both proofs? No mag or sear safety. 3 unit marks. 2 crossed out. SB3914 left - (see Don Maus "History Writ in Steel" page 94 and 95). No number on firing pin - has C/B proof? No number on hold open - normal? Very good bore. Blue 80% - Straw 80%. Value ? Attached Thumbnails __________________ Bill Lyon

08-14-2014, 12:02 PM	#2
Don M Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,429 Thanks: 67 Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts	Bill, everything looks correct to me, including the mixed ArA4 and WaA4 acceptance stamps. This is common on early 1921 production when the inspection organization changed names. Some may question the lack of sear and mag safeties on this gun. The format of the lined-out marking indicates the pistol was assigned to a barracked Hundertschaft. These pistols were exempted from the 1933 order to add these safeties as their owners were to be transferred to the military. I will let others comment on value but will say that this is a rather unique pistol as discussed in HWIS. Its first marking, believed to be 2 RH 304, apparently predates the 1922 police marking instructions. This is an extremely rare Berlin police marking. __________________ Regards, Don donmaus1@aol.com Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936 http://www.historywritinsteel.com

08-14-2014, 12:46 PM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,927 Thanks: 2,028 Thanked 4,525 Times in 2,090 Posts	Didn't Dwight do a request for these early 1920's lugers on whether they had sn on the firing pin 4 or 5 yrs ago? http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=14346 Hold open, not sure... I would expect a number even if it started as a commercial but the markings on the right sound army / police all the way. I would think to a average collector of lugers, the value would be lessened by the FP and HO not being numbered, so $950 to $1100 ? To someone who understands what Don said, IMO $1200-$1300 - the bluing is very good except for a few areas, so that might make it lower on the value to some? Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

08-14-2014, 03:38 PM	#4
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	Bill I haven't gor one thenth of your experience and knwledge on Lugers, but come on all together it's quite a nice Luger, an honest Police Luger that just for comparison here in Italy wouldn't cost less than the equivalent of about USD 1700.00/ 1900.00 only my 2 cents. Sergio __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

08-14-2014, 04:46 PM	#5
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,771 Thanks: 4,922 Thanked 3,123 Times in 1,434 Posts	No number on firing pin - has C/B proof? Bill, Is the firing pin fluted? Also is there a number on the toggle pin? Grips numbered? __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

08-14-2014, 08:42 PM	#6
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,631 Thanks: 3,170 Thanked 2,555 Times in 954 Posts	Jerry Firing pin is fluted. Grips last two digits of serial number. Toggle pin numbered. Hi and a hug to Ellie. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

08-14-2014, 09:05 PM	#7
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,927 Thanks: 2,028 Thanked 4,525 Times in 2,090 Posts	toggle pin would not be numbered until the early 1930's so numbered or unnumbered would be correct

08-14-2014, 10:35 PM	#8
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,771 Thanks: 4,922 Thanked 3,123 Times in 1,434 Posts	Bill, The reason I ask about these is that many earlier Luger's were refitted by Mauser to include a fluted firing pin, numbered toggle pin. These are sure signs it was sent to Mauser for this work. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."