Erma .22LR Conversion kit

Teddydog · 08-17-2013, 06:17 PM

Anyone know much about these? I came up with one today and I'm trying to find out all I can, including current value. I've posted on a couple of other forums, but since this is THE Luger forum, I thought I'd mention it here as well.

I know they were made starting in the 1920s or 30s through about 1940 for the German military and police. Those earlier units came in wooden boxes and were often property marked by either the police agency or the Army. Then they were started again after the war. Mine is one of the ones made and imported post-War (1950-60s). It is like new in a good condition green cardboard box, complete with manual and part list. Very cool item. I've heard that some came with a cleaning or clearing rod and my box seems to have a place for one, but I don't have it. I don't think the parts list shows one either. Serial number is in the 200 range.

I have found the basic info, but no luck with firm actual current value. Some have said that they really don't work very well, others have said they work just find. I guess there aren't all that many floating around and they don't come up for sale that often. Simpson LTD has a couple on their site with asking prices of $695 and up, but I don't know if that is realistic or absurd. Others have commented that Simpson's prices are current for the market.

Anyway...here it is:

BTW...I paid WAAAY less than $695 for this. If it really is worth upwards of $500, I may have to change my plans and sell it to a collector rather than play with it. (My one Luger is a Russian-capture gun, so I'm not too worried about shooting it a little bit).

Any and all comments are welcome!

Rob

klaus 3338 · 08-18-2013, 04:16 AM

The time after the II. W.W. was not the best for German gun makers and ERMA made several hundreds of these conversion kits for the U.S. market and the Norwegian military. Both orders were sold in the same boxes and with instruction paper/manual in English. The Norwegian Military magazines are numbered on the button and are made for only five rounds while these for the U.S. market seems made for ten rounds. The highest number on a magazine I have seen in Norway was 099.

K.Wilhelm · 08-18-2013, 10:05 AM

Congrats on your purchase of the Erma kit, Rob. Nice find. Now I would be real interested to know if and how well it functions.

Teddydog · 09-01-2013, 05:27 PM

Since I'm really not a Luger collector, I decided to part with this if I can get a good price. I put it up on GB since I don't know what a good price IS!

Rob

Edward Tinker · 09-01-2013, 06:31 PM

Teddy, it's post war, the box says interarmco.

I would think $300-$400

It will be interesting to see if anybody bids at $500 - a start at say $150 and you'd get several people bidding I would think.

Vlim · 09-02-2013, 08:11 AM

This is the early post war set, produced by Erma for Interarms. It would be followed up by the slightly improved SE-08/2 in the 1970s and 1980s.

Mauser tried to purchase Erma in the 1970s, as it would have allowed them easy access to a working .22lr system for their own Parabellum pistols. Erma has been hovering on the edge of bankruptcy for many years, so Mauser was speculating on that.

Ironically, Erma survived longer than Mauser's pistol branch, so the scheme was never carried out

It would be a great set to team up with a post war Interarms Parabellum. I'd buy it for $500 without blinking.

sheepherder · 09-02-2013, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlim

I'd buy it for $500 without blinking.

Reading that, I would think that refusing any offer under that amount on GB and re-listing it here on the For Sale forum for the amount Vlim has stated would be your best chance for a productive sale, and a boon to a serious collector...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teddydog

Simpson LTD has a couple on their site with asking prices of $695 and up, but I don't know if that is realistic or absurd.

Simpson's is generally thought to charge 20% above fair market value, so Vlim's estimate is pretty close. Some bottom feeding scumbag offering you $150 is absurd...

SteveM · 09-02-2013, 10:37 AM

I had one just like the one pictured. Functioned perfect, wish I still had it.

Edward Tinker · 09-02-2013, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by postino

.. Some bottom feeding scumbag offering you $150 is absurd...

i suggested he start it at $150 - what and why are you suggesting anything???????

sheepherder · 09-02-2013, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

i suggested he start it at $150...

On GB...It might be a good place to start, maybe with a reserve as high as Vlim suggested...

Quote:

- what and why are you suggesting anything???????

I suppose that is your way of insulting me, but ignoring that and taking Vlim's suggestion again, I would list it at $500 because I value Vlim's opinions...

Maestro · 09-02-2013, 11:38 PM

i prefer these myself

lugerholsterrepair · 09-03-2013, 12:56 AM

Yes! I have a set just like that Navy marked!

sheepherder · 09-03-2013, 01:15 AM

OK, let's try this -

Offer it at $150 [starting bid on GB] as Ed suggests, but place a Reserve on it of the amount that Vlim has indicated that he would be interested in buying it...$500...

And beware of any lowball offers from anyone who might PM or email you off the GB auction site (or even off this site)...

Listing it *here*, in the LugerForum 'For Sale' Forum, rather than on GB, might net you a fair price and quickly...And without sellers' fees...

Listing it on GB without a Reserve and at a low starting price may get you locked into a sale that is less than a third of what it might sell for here...

I was not implying that *Ed* was a bottom feeding scumbag...But rather that anyone who offered you less than Vlim's value was...

...I give up...

lugerholsterrepair · 09-03-2013, 01:20 AM

OK..I give up. I tried..God knows I did.

Maestro · 09-03-2013, 01:43 AM

here's another; all matching, including the box!!

Teddydog · 09-03-2013, 11:56 AM

Those pre-War kits in the wooden boxes are very cool! If I were actually a Luger collector, I'd want one of those for sure, but probably would never find one for a price I liked. : )

If it doesn't sell on GB, I likely will move it over here. Thanks for the info, thoughts and great pictures.

Rob

ithacaartist · 09-04-2013, 03:10 AM

I also have the SE-08, as the original poster. I'm running it in my 29/70 6" 9mm Mauser with the help of a homemade barrel spacer--the kit converts a 4" 9mm so I turned one out and had it blued to match. The setup is a little cranky, fussy about ammo. My experience has been "tainted" by an interest in the complete pistols that Erma made, the ones that look like Lugers. The earlier ones tend to be somewhat undependable, and if you can get one to run 8 shots out of its 10, then WOO-HOO, great! The conversion kit runs pretty well, compared to them...

Teddydog · 09-05-2013, 08:41 PM

Well, it sold on GB for the opening price of $500. I guess that's current market value.

Rob

ithacaartist · 09-06-2013, 11:08 AM

Personally, I like the SE-08/2 kit because it has knurled/checkered, round toggle knobs--opposed to the little smooth squared ones. Looks much more like original toggle knobs.

Teddydog · 09-14-2013, 04:25 PM

When preparing this unit to ship to the buyer, I discovered something that may likely have cost me some money in the sale. The cleaning/clear rod IS THERE! It was hiding under the parts holding partition all along! D'oh! And I had even thought about looking under there several times. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

rob

08-17-2013, 06:17 PM	#1
Teddydog User Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post	Erma .22LR Conversion kit Anyone know much about these? I came up with one today and I'm trying to find out all I can, including current value. I've posted on a couple of other forums, but since this is THE Luger forum, I thought I'd mention it here as well. I know they were made starting in the 1920s or 30s through about 1940 for the German military and police. Those earlier units came in wooden boxes and were often property marked by either the police agency or the Army. Then they were started again after the war. Mine is one of the ones made and imported post-War (1950-60s). It is like new in a good condition green cardboard box, complete with manual and part list. Very cool item. I've heard that some came with a cleaning or clearing rod and my box seems to have a place for one, but I don't have it. I don't think the parts list shows one either. Serial number is in the 200 range. I have found the basic info, but no luck with firm actual current value. Some have said that they really don't work very well, others have said they work just find. I guess there aren't all that many floating around and they don't come up for sale that often. Simpson LTD has a couple on their site with asking prices of $695 and up, but I don't know if that is realistic or absurd. Others have commented that Simpson's prices are current for the market. Anyway...here it is: BTW...I paid WAAAY less than $695 for this. If it really is worth upwards of $500, I may have to change my plans and sell it to a collector rather than play with it. (My one Luger is a Russian-capture gun, so I'm not too worried about shooting it a little bit). Any and all comments are welcome! Rob

08-18-2013, 10:05 AM	#3
K.Wilhelm User Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: South Central Colorado Posts: 215 Thanks: 45 Thanked 109 Times in 66 Posts	Nice conversion kit Congrats on your purchase of the Erma kit, Rob. Nice find. Now I would be real interested to know if and how well it functions. __________________ NRA Endowment Life member Proud veteran of the Naval Security Group

09-02-2013, 11:38 PM	#11
Maestro User Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: "Where the streets have no names" Posts: 504 Thanks: 192 Thanked 200 Times in 136 Posts	i prefer these myself Attached Thumbnails

09-03-2013, 12:56 AM	#12
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,931 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Yes! I have a set just like that Navy marked! __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

09-03-2013, 01:15 AM	#13
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,182 Thanks: 1,400 Thanked 4,442 Times in 2,330 Posts	OK, let's try this - Offer it at $150 [starting bid on GB] as Ed suggests, but place a Reserve on it of the amount that Vlim has indicated that he would be interested in buying it...$500... And beware of any lowball offers from anyone who might PM or email you off the GB auction site (or even off this site)... Listing it here, in the LugerForum 'For Sale' Forum, rather than on GB, might net you a fair price and quickly...And without sellers' fees... Listing it on GB without a Reserve and at a low starting price may get you locked into a sale that is less than a third of what it might sell for here... I was not implying that Ed was a bottom feeding scumbag...But rather that anyone who offered you less than Vlim's value was... ...I give up... __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

08-18-2013, 04:16 AM	#2
klaus 3338 User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Germany Posts: 517 Thanks: 0 Thanked 411 Times in 160 Posts	The time after the II. W.W. was not the best for German gun makers and ERMA made several hundreds of these conversion kits for the U.S. market and the Norwegian military. Both orders were sold in the same boxes and with instruction paper/manual in English. The Norwegian Military magazines are numbered on the button and are made for only five rounds while these for the U.S. market seems made for ten rounds. The highest number on a magazine I have seen in Norway was 099.

09-01-2013, 05:27 PM	#4
Teddydog User Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post	Since I'm really not a Luger collector, I decided to part with this if I can get a good price. I put it up on GB since I don't know what a good price IS! Rob

09-01-2013, 06:31 PM	#5
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,932 Thanks: 2,032 Thanked 4,528 Times in 2,091 Posts	Teddy, it's post war, the box says interarmco. I would think $300-$400 It will be interesting to see if anybody bids at $500 - a start at say $150 and you'd get several people bidding I would think.

09-02-2013, 08:11 AM	#6
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,988 Times in 1,205 Posts	This is the early post war set, produced by Erma for Interarms. It would be followed up by the slightly improved SE-08/2 in the 1970s and 1980s. Mauser tried to purchase Erma in the 1970s, as it would have allowed them easy access to a working .22lr system for their own Parabellum pistols. Erma has been hovering on the edge of bankruptcy for many years, so Mauser was speculating on that. Ironically, Erma survived longer than Mauser's pistol branch, so the scheme was never carried out It would be a great set to team up with a post war Interarms Parabellum. I'd buy it for $500 without blinking.

09-02-2013, 10:37 AM	#8
SteveM User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 1,016 Thanks: 94 Thanked 275 Times in 137 Posts	I had one just like the one pictured. Functioned perfect, wish I still had it.

09-03-2013, 01:20 AM	#14
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,931 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	OK..I give up. I tried..God knows I did. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

09-03-2013, 01:43 AM	#15
Maestro User Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: "Where the streets have no names" Posts: 504 Thanks: 192 Thanked 200 Times in 136 Posts	here's another; all matching, including the box!! Attached Thumbnails

09-03-2013, 11:56 AM	#16
Teddydog User Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post	Those pre-War kits in the wooden boxes are very cool! If I were actually a Luger collector, I'd want one of those for sure, but probably would never find one for a price I liked. : ) If it doesn't sell on GB, I likely will move it over here. Thanks for the info, thoughts and great pictures. Rob

09-04-2013, 03:10 AM	#17
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,346 Thanks: 7,271 Thanked 2,578 Times in 1,365 Posts	I also have the SE-08, as the original poster. I'm running it in my 29/70 6" 9mm Mauser with the help of a homemade barrel spacer--the kit converts a 4" 9mm so I turned one out and had it blued to match. The setup is a little cranky, fussy about ammo. My experience has been "tainted" by an interest in the complete pistols that Erma made, the ones that look like Lugers. The earlier ones tend to be somewhat undependable, and if you can get one to run 8 shots out of its 10, then WOO-HOO, great! The conversion kit runs pretty well, compared to them... __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894

09-05-2013, 08:41 PM	#18
Teddydog User Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post	Well, it sold on GB for the opening price of $500. I guess that's current market value. Rob

09-06-2013, 11:08 AM	#19
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,346 Thanks: 7,271 Thanked 2,578 Times in 1,365 Posts	Personally, I like the SE-08/2 kit because it has knurled/checkered, round toggle knobs--opposed to the little smooth squared ones. Looks much more like original toggle knobs. __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894

09-14-2013, 04:25 PM	#20
Teddydog User Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post	When preparing this unit to ship to the buyer, I discovered something that may likely have cost me some money in the sale. The cleaning/clear rod IS THERE! It was hiding under the parts holding partition all along! D'oh! And I had even thought about looking under there several times. Stupid, stupid, stupid. rob