Which Luger?

Tony Min · 08-21-2013, 06:26 PM

So, I am looking for my first shooter Luger. I like military, 9mm. Which brand or variation should I be interested in? Are some better than others? More plentiful parts?
Thanks

alvin · 08-21-2013, 07:24 PM

The major challenge is not scarcity. The major challenge is cost. I would suggest S/42 or byf for shooting. In theory, the steel was better made in 1930s and 40s.

Tony Min · 08-21-2013, 08:01 PM

I like BYF because I already have a P38 BYF 42 and could make that my collecting niche. I love the P38 I just found.

alvin · 08-21-2013, 08:16 PM

Read a digest article in the past, the author partitioned the 9mm pistols into a few generations. The 1st generation, of course, was Luger and Red 9, only those two types of 9mm pistols were mass produced in large numbers, until 1935. Pistols like Hi-Power, VIS35, Lathi, and P38 were classified as the 2nd generation.

Since you already had a 2nd generation 9mm, acquiring a 1st generation 9mm (Luger being 1st gen regardless year of making) makes lots of sense.

mrerick · 08-21-2013, 08:39 PM

Stick with the Mauser made Lugers from WW-II. Buy a shooter quality, rather than a collector. Some of these are very nice, and you won't break the bank by breaking a part.

Cost should be in the $700-$1000 range.

Marc

Tony Min · 08-21-2013, 08:47 PM

That is exactly what I have been looking for. Not much available in that price range though

alvin · 08-21-2013, 09:01 PM

Since I sold a few guns, I assume I knew seller's logic (actually, my logic) in this. Say, I had a good shooter grade listing for sale, I knew it works well, let it go cheap is not impossible, but unless I quit from this hobby, it's not very easy to find one shoot well lower. There are lower ones of course, but God knows it works well or not, or how much more I have to put into it to make it work. There are lots of uncertainties. So better keep shooting the existing one. One day, I will die, my son will inherit it, and he does not like guns at all, so he will dump them cheap. That's the moment the gun will go cheap.

====

[Edit] I've told him, "if you don't like these guns, contact 'JackTheDog', ask him to sell them for you. Don't sell to local pawn stores."

rhuff · 08-22-2013, 03:20 PM

The DWM "alphabet" Lugers make good shooters also. They do not demand the prices of the military Lugers, and there are reasonably priced parts guns, and less than pristine guns for sale in the $700-800 range.

K.Wilhelm · 08-22-2013, 05:15 PM

Being a new collector I decided to start with a cartridge that the Luger was originally designed for, .30 Luger. Also, as rhuff stated, the 1920 commercials are found at lesser prices due to greater supply and less desire for them I guess. Anyway, I found what I was looking for and am really liking it- shooting the .30 Luger is great, and my wife even enjoys shooting it! I subsequently got a 9mm shooter and like it also, but not as much as the .30 Luger.

KW

Tony Min · 08-22-2013, 09:11 PM

Is it hard to find ammo for the .30? I do see them cheaper. Why do you like it better than the 9mm?

G.T. · 08-22-2013, 09:43 PM

I like the .30, but ammo is expensive and sometime not readily available... 9mm, when not on, "Panic sale!" is relatively cheap...The .30 is really pretty snotty when shot out of a long barrel, 6 inches or better... but, according to the whole world less the Swiss, 9mm has more energy for attack or defense?? BTW, check your want add, I have something that might be of interest to you... til...lat'r...GT

ithacaartist · 08-23-2013, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G.T.

I like the .30, but ammo is expensive and sometime not readily available... 9mm, when not on, "Panic sale!" is relatively cheap...The .30 is really pretty snotty when shot out of a long barrel, 6 inches or better...

I agree. In fact, my 6" .30 Franken-Luger you re-barreled for me is now my favorite shooter--partly because it's the one I get the best results with but also largely because I find it rather friendly and sweet to fire.

I've been accumulating brass in .30 Luger, buying Fiocchi ammo when I can find it for around $20 a box, finding brass on auction sites, etc. so I can reload this historic caliber, which is so very pleasant to shoot.

Sergio Natali · 08-23-2013, 06:14 AM

I would stick with the MAUSER made Lugers from WWII. The steel of a "byf" date should be a bit better, also in the hope that it got a bit less used and abused. Even if you look for a shooter quality rather than a collector I don't think it's easy to find a real bargain.
As usual one gets for what one pays for.

rhuff · 08-23-2013, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony Min

Is it hard to find ammo for the .30? I do see them cheaper. Why do you like it better than the 9mm?

When the USA is "normal" gun/ammo/reloading components-wise, the 30 Luger ammo is pretty easy to find. It is more expensive than 9mm, but is a gas to shoot. I reload the 30 Luger brass because I have other handguns in that caliber, and shoot them often. If you plan to shoot your Luger a lot, and not reload, then 9mm will work out better for you in the long run.

K.Wilhelm · 08-23-2013, 04:15 PM

I should have mentioned in my earlier post that I do handload. The .30 Luger does present some challenges in that regard- brass is particularly hard to find lately. Also I have had to use bullets designed for .30 Mauser (.308 instead of .309), but they work fine. If you're not a handloader and you can't find the Fiochhi ammo, probably stick with a Luger in 9mm.

Edward Tinker · 08-23-2013, 06:30 PM

Just look on line, you can buy 7.65mm Luger for a decent price, then reload it...

sheepherder · 08-23-2013, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K.Wilhelm

I should have mentioned in my earlier post that I do handload. The .30 Luger does present some challenges in that regard- brass is particularly hard to find lately.

You can make 7.65 Parabellum cases from .223 Remington brass. Cut it near to length, lube it good, run it through the '30 Luger' sizing die, and then trim to length. I use RCBS dies, new unfired brass, and a Forster case trimmer. It will be a bit 'loose' the first firing, but will fireform nicely.

Don't bother with 5.56 military brass.

I've also made 7.65 Parabellum and 7.63 Mauser from 38 Special brass, but I have a lathe to cut the rim down & cut extractor groove.

I've also used 30 carbine bullets drilled out to 93 gr weight.

I like 30 cal/7.65mm...I've re-barreled several popular 9mm pistols to take the 7.65 Parabellum.

G.T. · 08-23-2013, 09:03 PM

Hi Rich, have you ever thought about, or tried, just turning off the bullet base a'bit in the/a lathe collet with a stop??... seems like carbine bullets are a'bit too long as well as too heavy
??.... just a thought.. might not be as easy as it sounds... best to you, til..lat'r...GT

08-21-2013, 06:26 PM	#1
Tony Min User Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 169 Thanks: 0 Thanked 21 Times in 14 Posts	Which Luger? So, I am looking for my first shooter Luger. I like military, 9mm. Which brand or variation should I be interested in? Are some better than others? More plentiful parts? Thanks

08-21-2013, 08:39 PM	#5
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,907 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,108 Times in 1,509 Posts	Stick with the Mauser made Lugers from WW-II. Buy a shooter quality, rather than a collector. Some of these are very nice, and you won't break the bank by breaking a part. Cost should be in the $700-$1000 range. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

08-22-2013, 05:15 PM	#9
K.Wilhelm User Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: South Central Colorado Posts: 215 Thanks: 45 Thanked 109 Times in 66 Posts	Which type of Luger to start Being a new collector I decided to start with a cartridge that the Luger was originally designed for, .30 Luger. Also, as rhuff stated, the 1920 commercials are found at lesser prices due to greater supply and less desire for them I guess. Anyway, I found what I was looking for and am really liking it- shooting the .30 Luger is great, and my wife even enjoys shooting it! I subsequently got a 9mm shooter and like it also, but not as much as the .30 Luger. KW __________________ NRA Endowment Life member Proud veteran of the Naval Security Group

08-22-2013, 09:43 PM	#11
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,502 Thanks: 1,318 Thanked 3,637 Times in 1,001 Posts	both are good... I like the .30, but ammo is expensive and sometime not readily available... 9mm, when not on, "Panic sale!" is relatively cheap...The .30 is really pretty snotty when shot out of a long barrel, 6 inches or better... but, according to the whole world less the Swiss, 9mm has more energy for attack or defense?? BTW, check your want add, I have something that might be of interest to you... til...lat'r...GT

08-23-2013, 04:15 PM	#15
K.Wilhelm User Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: South Central Colorado Posts: 215 Thanks: 45 Thanked 109 Times in 66 Posts	.30 Luger I should have mentioned in my earlier post that I do handload. The .30 Luger does present some challenges in that regard- brass is particularly hard to find lately. Also I have had to use bullets designed for .30 Mauser (.308 instead of .309), but they work fine. If you're not a handloader and you can't find the Fiochhi ammo, probably stick with a Luger in 9mm. __________________ NRA Endowment Life member Proud veteran of the Naval Security Group

08-21-2013, 07:24 PM	#2
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	The major challenge is not scarcity. The major challenge is cost. I would suggest S/42 or byf for shooting. In theory, the steel was better made in 1930s and 40s.

08-21-2013, 08:01 PM	#3
Tony Min User Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 169 Thanks: 0 Thanked 21 Times in 14 Posts	I like BYF because I already have a P38 BYF 42 and could make that my collecting niche. I love the P38 I just found.

08-21-2013, 08:16 PM	#4
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Read a digest article in the past, the author partitioned the 9mm pistols into a few generations. The 1st generation, of course, was Luger and Red 9, only those two types of 9mm pistols were mass produced in large numbers, until 1935. Pistols like Hi-Power, VIS35, Lathi, and P38 were classified as the 2nd generation. Since you already had a 2nd generation 9mm, acquiring a 1st generation 9mm (Luger being 1st gen regardless year of making) makes lots of sense.

08-21-2013, 08:47 PM	#6
Tony Min User Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 169 Thanks: 0 Thanked 21 Times in 14 Posts	That is exactly what I have been looking for. Not much available in that price range though

08-21-2013, 09:01 PM	#7
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Since I sold a few guns, I assume I knew seller's logic (actually, my logic) in this. Say, I had a good shooter grade listing for sale, I knew it works well, let it go cheap is not impossible, but unless I quit from this hobby, it's not very easy to find one shoot well lower. There are lower ones of course, but God knows it works well or not, or how much more I have to put into it to make it work. There are lots of uncertainties. So better keep shooting the existing one. One day, I will die, my son will inherit it, and he does not like guns at all, so he will dump them cheap. That's the moment the gun will go cheap. ==== [Edit] I've told him, "if you don't like these guns, contact 'JackTheDog', ask him to sell them for you. Don't sell to local pawn stores."

08-22-2013, 03:20 PM	#8
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,288 Thanks: 2,702 Thanked 971 Times in 716 Posts	The DWM "alphabet" Lugers make good shooters also. They do not demand the prices of the military Lugers, and there are reasonably priced parts guns, and less than pristine guns for sale in the $700-800 range.

08-22-2013, 09:11 PM	#10
Tony Min User Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 169 Thanks: 0 Thanked 21 Times in 14 Posts	Is it hard to find ammo for the .30? I do see them cheaper. Why do you like it better than the 9mm?

08-23-2013, 06:14 AM	#13
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	I would stick with the MAUSER made Lugers from WWII. The steel of a "byf" date should be a bit better, also in the hope that it got a bit less used and abused. Even if you look for a shooter quality rather than a collector I don't think it's easy to find a real bargain. As usual one gets for what one pays for.

08-23-2013, 06:30 PM	#16
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,926 Thanks: 2,014 Thanked 4,523 Times in 2,089 Posts	Just look on line, you can buy 7.65mm Luger for a decent price, then reload it... __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

08-23-2013, 09:03 PM	#18
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,502 Thanks: 1,318 Thanked 3,637 Times in 1,001 Posts	drilled bullets... Hi Rich, have you ever thought about, or tried, just turning off the bullet base a'bit in the/a lathe collet with a stop??... seems like carbine bullets are a'bit too long as well as too heavy ??.... just a thought.. might not be as easy as it sounds... best to you, til..lat'r...GT