Question Regarding Imperial Rod - Page 3

Norme · 06-26-2013, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by postino

...???...Patrice's original screws into the barrel as well...

Hi Rich, The shafts on original rods are hard soldered to the handles. I don't know whether they are threaded or not.
Regards, Norm

lugerholsterrepair · 06-26-2013, 02:21 PM

Rich..I don't know either. I have always considered anything screwed in to be incorrect for the previous reasons I have given.
The Carbine rod may be an anomoly. It is carried either in a flat case where it COULD unscrew and fall out or perhaps placed in a hard case? Either way..a rod that screws in makes no sense whatever.
What is it's purpose? Most modern rods that screw together are to condense the length. That is not necessary on short rods or a carbine length.
If it was to replace it with some other type/length of rod..where are they?
The worst part about rods that screw into a barrel is that it creates an extremely weak section at a critical stress area. To accomodate a threaded screw in a same size shaft..it is necessary to make a portion of the rod at least one half the thickness of the rod proper..if not more!
IF any original rods were threaded.. it was and is.. stupidity on a colossal scale. I don't believe the Germans would have done it.

Norm.. The shafts on original rods are hard soldered to the handles. I don't know whether they are threaded or not.
It would have made much more sense if one were to join a soldered rod with a simple hole and shaft. No threading necessary. This method would provide less labor, a flat seal for solder at the joint and a stronger fixture that would be as good as an unmolested rod.

sheepherder · 06-26-2013, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norme

Hi Rich, The shafts on original rods are hard soldered to the handles. I don't know whether they are threaded or not.
Regards, Norm

OK, I need a little help here...Are you talking about the entire full length of the rod being soldered to the grease pot clamp??? Or just the stub that I can see the rod being inserted into??? Whether or not the brass rod is soldered or threaded into the stub...

Is the brass rod w/auger supposed to be removable???

I don't think I can understand this without looking at/inspecting one...

regul · 06-26-2013, 02:23 PM

Eric
I have a rod like yours. I don't know if the brass rod is threaded or not, but the steel neck is staked/crimped to the brass shaft so it will not come out. I think it is Portuguese because the end opposite the oiler has both KK 10 in circle and 5 in circle.
I will try and post pictures later.
Thanks
Ed

LU1900 · 06-26-2013, 02:27 PM

Easy with paint , so , new light
About the inside , the rod go to be level , flush(dictionary) so , only we see the brass cercle for 4 or 5 mm
/
Got also a french rod for the "manufacture" luger , with also like the gun have inventory number stamped , and the milling brass is 45 ° from standard one's .

LU1900 · 06-26-2013, 02:30 PM

The thread on the barrel is also thinner on repros

cirelaw · 06-26-2013, 02:38 PM

Thanks Ed, heres a screw closeup! They are not interchangeable!

Norme · 06-26-2013, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by postino

OK, I need a little help here...Are you talking about the entire full length of the rod being soldered to the grease pot clamp??? Or just the stub that I can see the rod being inserted into??? Whether or not the brass rod is soldered or threaded into the stub...

Is the brass rod w/auger supposed to be removable???

I don't think I can understand this without looking at/inspecting one...

Hi Rich, I'm referring to the junction between the brass shaft and the steel handle. Without heating one of these up and dismantling, it's not possible to tell if the turned down end of the rod is threaded or not. Of course, that's assuming that the rod is male and the handle is female. The point is that the joint is designed to be permanent and non-rotational.
Regards, Norm

cirelaw · 06-26-2013, 03:23 PM

Norm, both of these are definatly 'non permanent'!Do we have another genuine to compare?

Norme · 06-26-2013, 04:24 PM

Hi Eric, According to Dr Sturgess, who has written the definitive book on the subject, the commercial Luger cleaning rod was of "one-piece non-demountable pattern with a blued steel grease drum handle, with a permanently fixed (hard-soldered) one-piece shaft/jag, made of brass". He goes on to say that the shaft was of 5.5mm diameter, and 179mm long (for 120mm barreled pistols). The final 55-58mm was turned with a coarse thread, 12 turns to the inch (Whitworth).
Regards, Norm

cirelaw · 06-26-2013, 04:29 PM

I should have known as I was was blessed with two exwives!!! I have the heavy books and found your reference! Thats what makes our passion so interesting!!! Thanks to all of you who contributed your input and devotion~~~~~Eric

regul · 06-26-2013, 06:05 PM

Eric
After I got home from work I had a chance to dig through my cleaning rod collection and here are some photos of original soldered shafts. These oilers have a rust blue outer finish as the insides are in the white.
Thanks
Ed

cirelaw · 06-26-2013, 06:21 PM

Wow big difference!!!! Tks

alanint · 06-26-2013, 08:13 PM

It would appear that the grease containers were regularly used as hammers for tapping in pins, etc.

lugerholsterrepair · 06-26-2013, 08:27 PM

Doug..yeah they just sorta scream use me like a hammer!

cirelaw · 06-26-2013, 08:31 PM

Does anyone have a clue who manufactured either?

Norme · 06-26-2013, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lugerholsterrepair

Doug..yeah they just sorta scream use me like a hammer!

Not just the steel ones.

06-26-2013, 02:21 PM	#42
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,771 Thanks: 4,925 Thanked 3,123 Times in 1,434 Posts	Rich..I don't know either. I have always considered anything screwed in to be incorrect for the previous reasons I have given. The Carbine rod may be an anomoly. It is carried either in a flat case where it COULD unscrew and fall out or perhaps placed in a hard case? Either way..a rod that screws in makes no sense whatever. What is it's purpose? Most modern rods that screw together are to condense the length. That is not necessary on short rods or a carbine length. If it was to replace it with some other type/length of rod..where are they? The worst part about rods that screw into a barrel is that it creates an extremely weak section at a critical stress area. To accomodate a threaded screw in a same size shaft..it is necessary to make a portion of the rod at least one half the thickness of the rod proper..if not more! IF any original rods were threaded.. it was and is.. stupidity on a colossal scale. I don't believe the Germans would have done it. Norm.. The shafts on original rods are hard soldered to the handles. I don't know whether they are threaded or not. It would have made much more sense if one were to join a soldered rod with a simple hole and shaft. No threading necessary. This method would provide less labor, a flat seal for solder at the joint and a stronger fixture that would be as good as an unmolested rod. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

06-26-2013, 02:23 PM	#44
regul Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: VA Posts: 96 Thanks: 19 Thanked 57 Times in 20 Posts	Eric I have a rod like yours. I don't know if the brass rod is threaded or not, but the steel neck is staked/crimped to the brass shaft so it will not come out. I think it is Portuguese because the end opposite the oiler has both KK 10 in circle and 5 in circle. I will try and post pictures later. Thanks Ed Attached Thumbnails Attached Images

06-26-2013, 02:27 PM	#45
LU1900 User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: FRANCE Posts: 907 Thanks: 40 Thanked 468 Times in 196 Posts	Easy with paint , so , new light About the inside , the rod go to be level , flush(dictionary) so , only we see the brass cercle for 4 or 5 mm / Got also a french rod for the "manufacture" luger , with also like the gun have inventory number stamped , and the milling brass is 45 ° from standard one's . Attached Thumbnails __________________ Best regards from France...Patrice https://www.fichier-pdf.fr/2016/03/1...nd-snail-drum/

06-26-2013, 02:30 PM	#46
LU1900 User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: FRANCE Posts: 907 Thanks: 40 Thanked 468 Times in 196 Posts	The thread on the barrel is also thinner on repros __________________ Best regards from France...Patrice https://www.fichier-pdf.fr/2016/03/1...nd-snail-drum/

06-26-2013, 02:38 PM	#47
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Thanks Ed, heres a screw closeup! They are not interchangeable! Attached Thumbnails

06-26-2013, 03:23 PM	#49
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Norm, both of these are definatly 'non permanent'!Do we have another genuine to compare?

06-26-2013, 04:24 PM	#50
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,603 Times in 933 Posts	Hi Eric, According to Dr Sturgess, who has written the definitive book on the subject, the commercial Luger cleaning rod was of "one-piece non-demountable pattern with a blued steel grease drum handle, with a permanently fixed (hard-soldered) one-piece shaft/jag, made of brass". He goes on to say that the shaft was of 5.5mm diameter, and 179mm long (for 120mm barreled pistols). The final 55-58mm was turned with a coarse thread, 12 turns to the inch (Whitworth). Regards, Norm

06-26-2013, 04:29 PM	#51
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	I should have known as I was was blessed with two exwives!!! I have the heavy books and found your reference! Thats what makes our passion so interesting!!! Thanks to all of you who contributed your input and devotion~~~~~Eric

06-26-2013, 06:05 PM	#52
regul Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: VA Posts: 96 Thanks: 19 Thanked 57 Times in 20 Posts	Eric After I got home from work I had a chance to dig through my cleaning rod collection and here are some photos of original soldered shafts. These oilers have a rust blue outer finish as the insides are in the white. Thanks Ed Attached Thumbnails

06-26-2013, 06:21 PM	#53
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Wow big difference!!!! Tks

06-26-2013, 08:13 PM	#54
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	It would appear that the grease containers were regularly used as hammers for tapping in pins, etc.

06-26-2013, 08:27 PM	#55
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,771 Thanks: 4,925 Thanked 3,123 Times in 1,434 Posts	Doug..yeah they just sorta scream use me like a hammer! __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

06-26-2013, 08:31 PM	#56
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Does anyone have a clue who manufactured either?