Australian Lugers?

[john]

I have a P14 (Artillery) Luger with the D^D (Australian Deptartment of Defence) marking under the rear sight, I

have heard a number of tales regarding Australian Issue of WW1 Lugers during WW2.

One story is that they were issued to VDC (Home Guard) Units;

The other is that they were issued to Independent Companies and Services Reconassance Department in place of the revolver, as they took the same ammunition as the Owen Gun. I would like to believe that one however all publications/articles I have read about such operations mention S&W revolvers?


I also have a P08 Luger with cast aluminum grips. It make sense to me that this would be part of a "job lot" as someone with one Luger needing new grips would go to trouble of casting a single set out of aluminum.

I have heard a number of stories regarding this one too.

One is that the cast aluminum grips on a Luger signify Kriegsmarine issue to E-boats and surface raiders, where exposure to sea water could cause the wooden grips to rot or swell and crack.

The other is again issue to Australian "spooks" during WW2 when the wood grips were replaced with cast aluminum for the same reason.


All info greatly appreciated.

Aluminum grips appear on various pistols but are not original issue and are not Kriegsmarine though the logic regarding environmental extremes makes sense. Aluminum is fairly easy to work and is a popular shop material for high school students who use it in the US to make car gearshifts and the like.


I am not aware of official Australian use of the luger--many went to Australia with soldiers who collected them in Europe and Africa during the wars. I have seen British, Australian, and Israeli stamped lugers so anything is possible. I would be interested in hearing whether the ANZACs inspected and reissued P08s.

[john]

mlm,

Thanks for the advice re. the grips.


As for Australian issue of the Luger, yes it apparently did happen. As I said, my P14 has D^D (aka "Dad and Dave Industries") stamped under the rear sight. Following Dunkirk, Australia sent 40,000 Lee Enfield rifles to Britain, when Japan started its Empire bulding program in late '41, Australia needed anything that could shoot.

Many thousands of privately owned firearms were pressed into service (for example, I have seen 32/20 M92 Winchesters and .32 M1910 Brownings with D^D and Military District Markings). This pile of arms included probably thousands of Lugers acquired in WW1.


My question is, does anybody know who the Lugers were issued too, was it VDC or the "spooks"?


As a side issue, commercial Lugers appear quite uncommon "down under". The vast majority seeen at gunshows and in dealers shops are German issue P08's accquired when the previous owner had no further use for them!

That is interesting regarding issue of lugers with D^D stamp. By the way, I have a MD2 (New South Wales region) 1917 dated Enfield. Was the military district stamp applied to id the rifle in use in Australia or were these stamped for use outside Australia in wartime? Were these warehoused in each mil district?

[john]

The 2MD marking signifies issue in the 2nd Military District (New South Wales). I would say your Enfield was issued to either a training, VDC or a "lines of communication" unit.

That is not to say it didn't see active service either before or after this marking was applied. Who knows?

I understand both 2/1st and 2/2nd Independent Companies, when operating in what was then Portuguese East Timor, used the P14 Enfield for sniping.

[john]

The 2MD marking signifies issue in the 2nd Military District (New South Wales). I would say your Enfield was issued to either a training, VDC or a "lines of communication" unit.

That is not to say it didn't see active service either before or after this marking was applied. Who knows?

I understand both 2/1st and 2/2nd Independent Companies, when operating in what was then Portuguese East Timor, used the P14 Enfield for sniping.

Advice today from a fellow who was in the area at the time is that Lugers were a fairly common handgun among Australian troops during the New Guinea campaign, whether these were privately owned or issued he was unsure.

He remembers two individual guns in his unit, one was a WW1 pistol, handed down to the son, who carried it, from his father, who had acquired it when a previous owner "died suddenly". The other had been acquired in similar circumstances in North Africa

Thanks for comments--what is VDC?

The rifle I refer to is a No1MkIII made at Lithgow in 1917. It has a brass unit disk marked 6 L.H. and 2 M.D. on the receiver and chamber end.

[john]

Sorry, Volunteer Defence Corps, the Australian WW2 version of the British Home Guard.

OOps Sorry, I thought you were talking about the P14 Enfield, my stuff-up.

The 2MD mark on the knox form of your SMLE would signify issue in 2MD, as I said, probably to a reserve, training, lines of communication or VDC unit.

The 6LH on the butt disk would identify the rifle as being issued to the 6th Light Horse Regiment, this marking was probably done between the wars. The Australian War Memorial Webpage may have more info on this unit and what/where it served.

Stay in contact. I've got two British Enfields with stamps all over them & don't know what they mean. One is a SMLE MK III (?) dated 1914 and the other a MK IV dated 1944. I'll drag them out later and ask a few questions.


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