Question private Purchased 08

charly239 · 12-23-2012, 06:27 AM

Hallo all
I have a Question about private Purchased ww1 Offices Lugers.
Did they have the Same Military proofmarks as the others?

How can i detect a private One?

Regards thomas

George Anderson · 12-23-2012, 09:23 AM

No military markings. The commercial private purchase P08s had five digit serial numbers and either BUG proofs or Crown/N horizontal proofs.

DavidJayUden · 12-23-2012, 09:56 AM

Geo:
It never occurred to me that the commercial P08s we see could have military history thru private ownership in the upper ranks. Would they all be 9mm, and are there any distinguishing features or markings?
dju

George Anderson · 12-23-2012, 10:34 AM

David, they were all 9mm and fall into the category of 1908 commercial and 1914 commercial. I believe the serial number ranges would be 50000 through 70000. The very rare 1913 commercials may also have been among the private purchase pistols. The only distinguishing markings can be found on some of the early BUG proof '08 commercials. They are found inside the magazine well on the bottum back. The marking is "Prv" which is thought to indicate privat, in English private.

DavidJayUden · 12-23-2012, 10:59 AM

Thank you George, and Merry Christmas.
dju

charly239 · 12-23-2012, 12:21 PM

Thanks for your help...

Merry Christmas

George Anderson · 12-23-2012, 05:54 PM

I have attached a thread from Jan Still's forum dealing with a private purchase officer's '08.
http://luger.gunboards.com/showthrea...nt-auction-buy

lugersrkewl · 12-23-2012, 08:43 PM

did some of these go to the swiss? I know the swiss use prv to indicate the release of a military weapon into private sales

George Anderson · 12-23-2012, 09:21 PM

These markings are only found on '08 BUG proofed commercials in 9mm as far as I know and the Swiss private or commercial sale guns had a rather large P on the receiver. The '08 9mm commercials had no connection to the Swiss. The Swiss also used a cursive P on the spine of magazines.

klaus 3338 · 12-24-2012, 01:41 AM

Not all private purchased Luger are in the range between 50000 and 70000. In the Landau list are a few Lugers with standard 4 digit serial numbers mentioned as private.
I think that all the Lugers with the 3 lobe crown X are private purchased Lugers for the officers which were stamped in a small series in late 1914.

Dwight Gruber · 12-24-2012, 02:27 AM

Central Powerws Pistols (p.147) has a 1917 list of pistols offered for officer private purchase from the Gerrman War Department, including P08 and LP08. It is not clear how or where these pistols were procured, but it is suggested that many, if not most of them, had army inspection stamps.

--Dwight

klaus 3338 · 12-24-2012, 03:53 AM

Dwight,
these pistols on page 147 of Central power pistols are "non ordnance" pistols.
There are some documents in German archive about the ordnance pistol P08.
Officers were allowed to wear and use a handgun as they wont- only the holster should look like the P08 holster.
The best hint to answer the question what kind of Lugers was purchased by the officers until the Great War is the Landau list. There are written the numbers of the private Lugers of the officers with the unit stamped of the different regiments.
I have added some points of the list. The numbers are between 39000 and 64000.
I found meanwhile 12 Lugers which are listed there.
Regards
Klaus

gill120 · 12-25-2012, 11:03 AM

My 08 commercial is in the 497xx serial range with the PRV mark inside the rear lower grip frame. Has the un numbered twin mags and in an early holster with rod and pin punch present.Regards Dave

DavidJayUden · 12-25-2012, 01:28 PM

So to see the marking do you remove the grip panels, or just peer into the bottom of the mag well? Along the rear edge?
dju

gill120 · 12-26-2012, 10:11 AM

look imside the bo
ttom of the mag well.

12-23-2012, 06:27 AM	#1
charly239 User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Europe Posts: 211 Thanks: 16 Thanked 10 Times in 2 Posts	Question private Purchased 08 Hallo all I have a Question about private Purchased ww1 Offices Lugers. Did they have the Same Military proofmarks as the others? How can i detect a private One? Regards thomas

12-24-2012, 03:53 AM	#12
klaus 3338 User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Germany Posts: 517 Thanks: 0 Thanked 411 Times in 160 Posts	Dwight, these pistols on page 147 of Central power pistols are "non ordnance" pistols. There are some documents in German archive about the ordnance pistol P08. Officers were allowed to wear and use a handgun as they wont- only the holster should look like the P08 holster. The best hint to answer the question what kind of Lugers was purchased by the officers until the Great War is the Landau list. There are written the numbers of the private Lugers of the officers with the unit stamped of the different regiments. I have added some points of the list. The numbers are between 39000 and 64000. I found meanwhile 12 Lugers which are listed there. Regards Klaus Attached Thumbnails

12-23-2012, 09:23 AM	#2
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,528 Times in 787 Posts	No military markings. The commercial private purchase P08s had five digit serial numbers and either BUG proofs or Crown/N horizontal proofs.

12-23-2012, 09:56 AM	#3
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Geo: It never occurred to me that the commercial P08s we see could have military history thru private ownership in the upper ranks. Would they all be 9mm, and are there any distinguishing features or markings? dju

12-23-2012, 10:34 AM	#4
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,528 Times in 787 Posts	David, they were all 9mm and fall into the category of 1908 commercial and 1914 commercial. I believe the serial number ranges would be 50000 through 70000. The very rare 1913 commercials may also have been among the private purchase pistols. The only distinguishing markings can be found on some of the early BUG proof '08 commercials. They are found inside the magazine well on the bottum back. The marking is "Prv" which is thought to indicate privat, in English private.

12-23-2012, 10:59 AM	#5
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Thank you George, and Merry Christmas. dju

12-23-2012, 12:21 PM	#6
charly239 User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Europe Posts: 211 Thanks: 16 Thanked 10 Times in 2 Posts	Thanks for your help... Merry Christmas

12-23-2012, 05:54 PM	#7
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,528 Times in 787 Posts	I have attached a thread from Jan Still's forum dealing with a private purchase officer's '08. http://luger.gunboards.com/showthrea...nt-auction-buy

12-23-2012, 08:43 PM	#8
lugersrkewl Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Ussr Posts: 425 Thanks: 198 Thanked 75 Times in 58 Posts	did some of these go to the swiss? I know the swiss use prv to indicate the release of a military weapon into private sales

12-23-2012, 09:21 PM	#9
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,528 Times in 787 Posts	These markings are only found on '08 BUG proofed commercials in 9mm as far as I know and the Swiss private or commercial sale guns had a rather large P on the receiver. The '08 9mm commercials had no connection to the Swiss. The Swiss also used a cursive P on the spine of magazines.

12-24-2012, 01:41 AM	#10
klaus 3338 User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Germany Posts: 517 Thanks: 0 Thanked 411 Times in 160 Posts	Not all private purchased Luger are in the range between 50000 and 70000. In the Landau list are a few Lugers with standard 4 digit serial numbers mentioned as private. I think that all the Lugers with the 3 lobe crown X are private purchased Lugers for the officers which were stamped in a small series in late 1914.

12-24-2012, 02:27 AM	#11
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,893 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,288 Times in 426 Posts	Central Powerws Pistols (p.147) has a 1917 list of pistols offered for officer private purchase from the Gerrman War Department, including P08 and LP08. It is not clear how or where these pistols were procured, but it is suggested that many, if not most of them, had army inspection stamps. --Dwight

12-25-2012, 11:03 AM	#13
gill120 User Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 95 Thanks: 1 Thanked 18 Times in 11 Posts	My 08 commercial is in the 497xx serial range with the PRV mark inside the rear lower grip frame. Has the un numbered twin mags and in an early holster with rod and pin punch present.Regards Dave

12-25-2012, 01:28 PM	#14
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	So to see the marking do you remove the grip panels, or just peer into the bottom of the mag well? Along the rear edge? dju

12-26-2012, 10:11 AM	#15
gill120 User Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 95 Thanks: 1 Thanked 18 Times in 11 Posts	look imside the bo ttom of the mag well.