VoPO for sale ON GB? DIP?

glock30 · 11-15-2012, 08:44 PM

Hey guys, I had seen this post and noticed a lot of you and said how this weapon was dipped. I had a 1921 DWM Police Weimer Luger that I bought in 1986, I was 21 at the time and knew little on Lugers, (This was my First) I just knew that it was refinished but not Buffed , but I was told the finish was original, but I knew it wasn't, but did not know about dipping, It was a 1986 Surplus Boom gun from Century arms. WHY DID they dip these? What was the point? All edges were sharp, there was evidence of pitting, and than the dip over that, vut damn it wasn't that bad, why did they want to do this? And what was the process? Like a cold blue? The Luger cost me 465.00 dollars in 1986, and it was all matching, totally. But dipped, so righ tnow this would still have little value? I wish I still had it.

LWaali · 11-15-2012, 10:02 PM

I would love to see a good set of pictures to learn the tell-tale signs of a dipped gun.

glock30 · 11-16-2012, 02:52 PM

Well identifying a dipped gun is easy, it has a blue black like color, and the coating, finish would be on top of nicks, pits etc.. Example, like a massive scratch on the gun, but there is no bare metal, just the continous color of the finish.

padredan · 11-16-2012, 03:38 PM

and it looks dipped/lol.

www.prussia.us · 11-16-2012, 05:31 PM

Sad thing is there are likely quite a few DDR/GDR (German/English version) guys still around that could at least explain what was done exactly and why to those 1950s East German re-works. I would be curious as to the standards for barrel replacement, hard to believe that many Luger barrels were beyond serviceable to warrant large scale re-barreling.

Many questions, few answers, just really cool dicked-with Lugers and speculation

Andyd · 11-17-2012, 01:52 AM

I asked a German Vopo gun collector that lived in the DDR. I was told that the replacement barrels came from Czechoslovakia (at the time), most likely from CZ who had also produced P38 barrels for the Wehrmacht.
The ammo used in WWII had corrosive primers and those were hard on the barrels. Many of the P.08s were disassembled, blued and reassembled from the stash of parts, worn or bad parts replaced. East Germany made many parts for the 08, my Vopo has the disassembly lever made in the GDR, the 2/1001 mags were made at in the GDR.

I was told, that the Volkspolizei had the guns reblued every few years as long as they were in police service. When the police could replace them with the Makarov or Hungarian FEG pistols, the p.08 were given to the workers brigades and other units. They most likely did not have qualified armourers, as the police had.

I have three Vopo Lugers and they are all decent shooters and personally feel that they deserve the increasing collector's interest that is just starting.

I can complement my small collection of Vopo Lugers with a Zeiss 7x40 EDF binocular and a Zeiss 8x30 with MDI stamps that had been used on the infamous watch towers.

www.prussia.us · 11-18-2012, 09:15 PM

Hey "andyd" those are some cool DDR collectables, and VERY interesting information.

They must have been super anal about their barrels, notwithstanding the primers, I have seen plenty of RC P08s and P38s w/ their original barrels certainly in good enough shape for service, or at least better than what many Vietnam Vets claim their Colt 45 barrels were in when issued.

Could someone edify me on the difference between an East German Luger rework w/o the VoPo shield and one with, as to where they likely ended up within the DDR.

Andyd · 11-19-2012, 01:23 AM

As far as I know, many Vopo 08 were captured Russian guns that were given to arm the Vopo, those have the Russian X on it. The absence of the X is most likely indicating an East German rework. The Deutsche Volkspolizei was not the only armed unit is the GDR. The DVdI (Deutsche Verwaltung des Innern) issued the first "Dienstvorschrift: Die Pistolen der Polizei" in 1949 naming nine 9mm and 25 other pistols. Since the P.08 had been the serive pistol of the recently lost war, most men were familiar with it and there were enough guns and parts around to arm the police, Betriebskampfgruppen (workers brigades) and the Grenztruppen (border guards).
There are P08s with various other markings than the Vopo starburst with the inspector's mark inside, the plainclothe police units of the "Kripo Dresden" for instance.
The guns were usually repaired at local Waffenmeistereien for smaller problems and sent to Suhl for major repair, that is were they got new barrels and were usually proofed, crown N for final proof, Crown U for inspection after final proof, crown R for "Instandsetzungsbeschuß" after a repair. The stamp with three of four digits is the date of proofing; 753 for July 1953.

All this info is taken from the German Visier magazine 9/1991 that has a special on Vopo guns.

www.prussia.us · 11-19-2012, 05:10 PM

GREAT INFO, thanks, that certainly clears everything up

Andyd · 11-20-2012, 12:37 AM

Your are welcome. I have cousins in East Germany and went visiting them around 2000/2001. One of them was in the "Grenztruppen der DDR", one of their elite units, much like the Waffen SS.

I had travelled many times behind the iron curtain back in the days of the GDR and it had always been an experience! That sparked my interest in East German collectibles.

I also have acquired a Haenel repeating airrifle that was widely used as a training gun. Back when I had visited my cousin, they took me to a contest with those airrifles and I was surprised at the very high level of marksmanship in the general population.

SteveM · 11-20-2012, 08:22 PM

This one was dipped..all matching and there were not any parts that were replaced. I couldn't find anything wrong with it except for a few blemishes here and there but no pitting. Ordered from Sarco around 1990 for $389.

www.prussia.us · 11-20-2012, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andyd

Your are welcome. I have cousins in East Germany and went visiting them around 2000/2001. One of them was in the "Grenztruppen der DDR", one of their elite units, much like the Waffen SS.

I had travelled many times behind the iron curtain back in the days of the GDR and it had always been an experience! That sparked my interest in East German collectibles.

I also have acquired a Haenel repeating airrifle that was widely used as a training gun. Back when I had visited my cousin, they took me to a contest with those airrifles and I was surprised at the very high level of marksmanship in the general population.

Before I take this thread off the reservation, SteveM super cool DDR-rework Luger, she is one smokin' fraulein.

Now AndyD, that is outstanding that you were able to keep in contact with your German relatives. Did your cousin ever talk about what happened to the Stg44's used or PPSh 41's, where they ever ended up?

Century imported a fair amount of DDR-proofed G43/K43 in the early 1990s, and occasionally you can find a 98K with the suhl eagle-proof, the SKS's and Nagants (rifle and revolvers) w/ the "1" in the triangle are around, as well as Mpi-K and MPi-Km AK-parts, but never DDR parts kits for Stg's, Mp40s, or PPSh41's from the DDR.

Andyd · 11-21-2012, 12:53 AM

SteveM,

that is a super-nice one!

www.prussia.us,

he never talked much about his service in the forces and since he had served during the 1980s, I think he will have little knowledge of those old guns, they had AKs and crossing the border, the guards had pointed it leisurely in my direction more than once.

11-15-2012, 08:44 PM	#1
glock30 User Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Obama LAND Posts: 206 Thanks: 18 Thanked 17 Times in 14 Posts	VoPO for sale ON GB? DIP? Hey guys, I had seen this post and noticed a lot of you and said how this weapon was dipped. I had a 1921 DWM Police Weimer Luger that I bought in 1986, I was 21 at the time and knew little on Lugers, (This was my First) I just knew that it was refinished but not Buffed , but I was told the finish was original, but I knew it wasn't, but did not know about dipping, It was a 1986 Surplus Boom gun from Century arms. WHY DID they dip these? What was the point? All edges were sharp, there was evidence of pitting, and than the dip over that, vut damn it wasn't that bad, why did they want to do this? And what was the process? Like a cold blue? The Luger cost me 465.00 dollars in 1986, and it was all matching, totally. But dipped, so righ tnow this would still have little value? I wish I still had it.

11-16-2012, 03:38 PM	#4
padredan User Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: louisiana Now, but from the Rebublic of Texas Posts: 937 Thanks: 429 Thanked 316 Times in 182 Posts	and it looks dipped/lol. __________________ In this world nothing is free, except the grace of God

11-15-2012, 10:02 PM	#2
LWaali User Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Washington State Posts: 99 Thanks: 67 Thanked 20 Times in 9 Posts	I would love to see a good set of pictures to learn the tell-tale signs of a dipped gun.

11-16-2012, 02:52 PM	#3
glock30 User Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Obama LAND Posts: 206 Thanks: 18 Thanked 17 Times in 14 Posts	Well identifying a dipped gun is easy, it has a blue black like color, and the coating, finish would be on top of nicks, pits etc.. Example, like a massive scratch on the gun, but there is no bare metal, just the continous color of the finish.

11-16-2012, 05:31 PM	#5
www.prussia.us User Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: NY Posts: 40 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Sad thing is there are likely quite a few DDR/GDR (German/English version) guys still around that could at least explain what was done exactly and why to those 1950s East German re-works. I would be curious as to the standards for barrel replacement, hard to believe that many Luger barrels were beyond serviceable to warrant large scale re-barreling. Many questions, few answers, just really cool dicked-with Lugers and speculation

11-17-2012, 01:52 AM	#6
Andyd User Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Kaufman County, Texas Posts: 48 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I asked a German Vopo gun collector that lived in the DDR. I was told that the replacement barrels came from Czechoslovakia (at the time), most likely from CZ who had also produced P38 barrels for the Wehrmacht. The ammo used in WWII had corrosive primers and those were hard on the barrels. Many of the P.08s were disassembled, blued and reassembled from the stash of parts, worn or bad parts replaced. East Germany made many parts for the 08, my Vopo has the disassembly lever made in the GDR, the 2/1001 mags were made at in the GDR. I was told, that the Volkspolizei had the guns reblued every few years as long as they were in police service. When the police could replace them with the Makarov or Hungarian FEG pistols, the p.08 were given to the workers brigades and other units. They most likely did not have qualified armourers, as the police had. I have three Vopo Lugers and they are all decent shooters and personally feel that they deserve the increasing collector's interest that is just starting. I can complement my small collection of Vopo Lugers with a Zeiss 7x40 EDF binocular and a Zeiss 8x30 with MDI stamps that had been used on the infamous watch towers.

11-18-2012, 09:15 PM	#7
www.prussia.us User Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: NY Posts: 40 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hey "andyd" those are some cool DDR collectables, and VERY interesting information. They must have been super anal about their barrels, notwithstanding the primers, I have seen plenty of RC P08s and P38s w/ their original barrels certainly in good enough shape for service, or at least better than what many Vietnam Vets claim their Colt 45 barrels were in when issued. Could someone edify me on the difference between an East German Luger rework w/o the VoPo shield and one with, as to where they likely ended up within the DDR.

11-19-2012, 01:23 AM	#8
Andyd User Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Kaufman County, Texas Posts: 48 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	As far as I know, many Vopo 08 were captured Russian guns that were given to arm the Vopo, those have the Russian X on it. The absence of the X is most likely indicating an East German rework. The Deutsche Volkspolizei was not the only armed unit is the GDR. The DVdI (Deutsche Verwaltung des Innern) issued the first "Dienstvorschrift: Die Pistolen der Polizei" in 1949 naming nine 9mm and 25 other pistols. Since the P.08 had been the serive pistol of the recently lost war, most men were familiar with it and there were enough guns and parts around to arm the police, Betriebskampfgruppen (workers brigades) and the Grenztruppen (border guards). There are P08s with various other markings than the Vopo starburst with the inspector's mark inside, the plainclothe police units of the "Kripo Dresden" for instance. The guns were usually repaired at local Waffenmeistereien for smaller problems and sent to Suhl for major repair, that is were they got new barrels and were usually proofed, crown N for final proof, Crown U for inspection after final proof, crown R for "Instandsetzungsbeschuß" after a repair. The stamp with three of four digits is the date of proofing; 753 for July 1953. All this info is taken from the German Visier magazine 9/1991 that has a special on Vopo guns.

11-19-2012, 05:10 PM	#9
www.prussia.us User Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: NY Posts: 40 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	GREAT INFO, thanks, that certainly clears everything up

11-20-2012, 12:37 AM	#10
Andyd User Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Kaufman County, Texas Posts: 48 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Your are welcome. I have cousins in East Germany and went visiting them around 2000/2001. One of them was in the "Grenztruppen der DDR", one of their elite units, much like the Waffen SS. I had travelled many times behind the iron curtain back in the days of the GDR and it had always been an experience! That sparked my interest in East German collectibles. I also have acquired a Haenel repeating airrifle that was widely used as a training gun. Back when I had visited my cousin, they took me to a contest with those airrifles and I was surprised at the very high level of marksmanship in the general population.

11-20-2012, 08:22 PM	#11
SteveM User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 1,016 Thanks: 94 Thanked 275 Times in 137 Posts	This one was dipped..all matching and there were not any parts that were replaced. I couldn't find anything wrong with it except for a few blemishes here and there but no pitting. Ordered from Sarco around 1990 for $389.

11-21-2012, 12:53 AM	#13
Andyd User Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Kaufman County, Texas Posts: 48 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	SteveM, that is a super-nice one! www.prussia.us, he never talked much about his service in the forces and since he had served during the 1980s, I think he will have little knowledge of those old guns, they had AKs and crossing the border, the guards had pointed it leisurely in my direction more than once.