Working on a deal

[Mike B]

I was contacted by a Pawn shop employee concerning a Luger they are trying to buy. Actually, there are seveal guns involved, but he is asking my help with the Luger. The Luger itself is pretty rough, but the holster is nice. The Luger is unit marked, which adds a bit of interest to the gun. I would appreciate someone telling me what the unit marks are.

Mike

[padredan]

Fairly nice looking peice, mike there is a section on unit marks might try to post there.

[lugerholsterrepair]

Mike..There appears to be no strawing evident..either it has gone dark or been blued over..I would check it out carefully for a re blue.
Got a shot of the back of the holster?

[Mike B]

Padre,
Unit mark: 4R1FWRa1
Jerry,
That is all the pics I received. I think the Luger is out of touch for a few days. Hopefully they can get the owner back in to finalize the deal. He wants $800.00, but they (Pawn) want to give him $600.00. I offered $900.00 which I think is a good offer. But that give them only $100.00 gravy if they take his price.
Mike

Mike

[Ron Smith]

Mike,

The unit mark doesn't correlate with any known military unit I have ever seen.

My first guess is that it's a Freikorps unit mark.

4.R.1.Frw could very well be 4th Regiment Company 1 Freiwillige (Free Will Volunteers) Freikorps units formed by Nationalist College Students and Civilian volunteers. Ra would be either the abbreviation for the town they were in, or for the name of the unit. More like the name of the unit. The "1" is the weapon number. This would be a very scarce, if not rare unit marking, if I'm correct. I think I am.

I've enhanced the photo so you can see the "r" between the "F" and "w".

Ron

[saab-bob]

A Freikorps unit mark. I bet that gun has seen alot of history!
Bob

[alanint]

There is strawing evident. The photos just don't bring it out......

[padredan]

pawnshop term for the vig or upside profit is "juice" but i have heard the term "gravy " used before to. Looks like a fairly nice peice, pawnshops usualy do not know the specs or actual values on things , they are just looking for the upside and usualy try to double when possible, in this case it won't happen, good luck if you can make a buy at 100.00 over, it can be done if you are tight with the shop, looks like it may have some historical unit marks on it, that the shop doesn't need to know.

[George Anderson]

The "4.R.1." looks as though it may have been scrubbed out prior to the "Frw." in which case it would almost certainly be a Freikorps marking.

[sheepherder]

Freikorps!!! Yeah!!!

...But no skull...

"1918"...And it's a DWM, not an Erfurt, btw...(I know he didn't say 'Erfurt', but the pics are labeled Erfurt...)

[Ron Smith]

I think George is correct about the 4.R being scrubbed. I thought it was caused by camera blur, but now that I look at it closer. It does look lightly scrubbed.

[Don M]

If you Google "Freikorps" you should find listings of the various units. Often they were named according to their commander and not a location.

[Lugerdoc]

This is the first time that I've heard of a Freicorp unit marked luger, other than those stamped with the "Death Head". With the disorganization after WW1 in Germany, I doubt that there are many of these, even if the marking experts decide that it's real. TH

[Ron Smith]

Tom,

Here is a 1916 DWM marked to "Freikorps Rossbach, 1st Battalion, 1st Machine Gun Company" that was posted on Jan Still's forum a few years ago.

I've also seen a Mauser 96 Red 9 with what appeared to be Freikorps markings.

Freikorps units were usually named after their Commander .

Freiwilligen units were named for the location "Thueringen", their unit specialty "Grenzjäger" , or occasionally their Commander. Some used all three, or sometimes a simple Regtiment or Battalion designator such as the number.

There were far fewer Freiwilligen units than Freikorps units.

Ron

[saab-bob]

I would imagine that since these units where paramilitary militias,there was very little standardization of markings.
Bob

[Ron Smith]

From 1918 to 1919 the Freikorps units were usually organized and led by ex-Imperial German Officers. Essentually War Lords who had complete control over their individual units. Although most Freikorps groups were Nationalist, and formed to fight the Communist and Anarchist factions. They often supported different National officials and or agendas, resulting in not only running gun battles between the Freikorps Units themselves, but often gun battles with the Police who may have supported a different official or agenda.

It was basically a wild west mentality with Freikorps units pitted against each other, the Police, Communists and Anarchists. During one period of a few months there were as many as 90 political assassinations. The Military and Landjägerei were busy putting down mutinies, or on the Eastern Frontier fighting the Poles and Czechs who were supported by the Russians, intent on taking back captured territory allotted to Germany by the Versailles Treaty.

So, if they marked their weapons at all, they would be very haphazard lacking any uniformity between the units.

In 1919 General Hans von Seekt a very charismatic and highly respected General managed to get control of the chaos. He began to dissolve the Freikorps units organizing them into a 100,000 man Reichswehr.

Later circa 1920-21 the Allied Commission mandated that it be reduced to 10,000 men. von Seekt complied by discharging all but the most experienced and battle hardened NCOs, known as "The Army of Sergeants".

[padredan]

Ron, Outstanding , thanks for posting

[Ron Smith]

I've been doing some research. There was a 1st Freiwilligen Rhein Feld-Artillery battery , also known as "Battery Kochs".

There's also a possiblity that it could be an Austrian Freiwilligen unit. Austria used different abbreviations, and there's very little recorded history, or information on them.

I am convinced that it is a Freiwilligen unit mark.

Ron

[Don M]

It seems possible that the first "1" in this marking was part of the earlier military marking and we should not be looking for a "1st Freiwillig" unit.

[Ron Smith]

Hi Don,

I believe the "1" is part of the Freiwilligen mark. It is very prominent and appears to have been heavily struck.

Ron