RESTORED yes or no??

03-13-2002, 11:17 AM

Hello, Just recieved my new list#242 from Ralph Shattuck.

Always wanted a matching 6" Navy, but most are out of my reach.Ralph has two closer to my ballpark.Item #113 a 1906 1st Navy,all matching,but restored at $1650,then item #204, a 1920 Navy Commercial,matching,good bore and exc.orig finish at $1900. My question is all things considered,sure a orig finish is great,but what is so wrong with a correctly refinished Luger that still has all it original matching parts? They restore cars and those bring big bucks,even more if the motor has matching numbers to the car.(matchings numbers? seems I heard of that before) Why not bring a older matching number Luger in great shape except with a poor finish back to a good finish.Sort of reminds me of some WW1 German flight badges(along with other types of metals and badges)that have a nice "patinna" to them.Dread the thought of cleaning them,but what Pilot would show up with a tarnished badge on his uniform? I never went to a personal inspection in my 20yrs of military with tarnished wings. Gee, I guess I am way off the point of restoring a Luger,but to me,I cant see why the value of two identical matching lugers,one with orig finish and one restored(properly) can be as much as $3000? I just guess unless I win the "Lotto" Restored Lugers,done correctly,will be more in my price range. Tks,Bill

03-13-2002, 11:43 AM

Just make sure that ""restored'' really means restored (and not just REBLUED!)

I find sellers often don't know the difference, when selling. They sure do when they are BUYING!

The Shadow Knows!

03-13-2002, 02:38 PM

This topic comes up frequently and repainted and rebuilt automobiles are often brought in as an example when asking why a restored luger is not worth nearly as much as an original finish luger. The problem with the analogy is that few if any original finish automobiles are available to collect. If a 98% orig finish car comes up against a 98% restored car, you can bet the orig finish car will have value far beyond the restored car. If there were no original finish lugers available, the highest prices paid for lugers would be for refinished lugers--but that is not the case.

This raises the issue restoration as a concept. In reality, you can't restore a luger but only recreate its factory appearance and configuration. Collectors value original information--about the parts, finish and usage of the gun. Refinishing, however good, is still a notch below the information presented to you in a trace of original finish. Therefore, when I value a luger offered for sale, I place a higher value on a low percent original finish luger than a comparable "restored/refinished" luger. The quality of the refinishes varies but a refinish means whatever trace of original information existed in the original finish is now gone and thus the gun is less valuable than one with some orig finish left remaining. When you buy a refinished luger, you are getting less history for your money than with an orig finish luger. To value lugers otherwise, is to value them on cosmetic/artistic appeal rather than historic appeal.

Keeping this in mind explains luger prices pretty accurately.

Dok · 03-13-2002, 02:43 PM

I guess the real question is... are you buying this as an investment you are planning to sell at a later date, hopefully for a profit?

If the answer to the question is "yes", the what you need to consider is, NOT what is appropriate or valuable in your eyes, but what is appropriate and valuable in the eyes of those who would buy your Navy. It is my understanding that a restored pistol is less valuable for trading purposes, which is obviously why it has a lower price tag.

If on the other hand you are buying strickly for your own pleasure with not much thought to possible later resale value, then I would opt for the restored Navy, it is in pristine condition and a good price.

Hope this helps.

Dok

03-13-2002, 08:53 PM

I understand and thank you for your points of view on this. Yes,history is one reason and resale is another.In some respect,a Luger,with 80% finish left,shows it has a history of a weapon in the use it was intended for, were as a 85 yr.old 1915 that is 100% mint,seems to only have a history of being stored away sence new with not much history to it at all. Maybe I now have a new opinion now about not restoring a Luger with a well worn finish. I guess that worn blue shows it true history after all. Tks. Bill

BILL · 03-13-2002, 11:17 PM

All things considered, an eighty year old Luger in mint condition that has been 'stored away' (well taken care of) is worth more than an eighty year old Luger that has been used to dig a few trenches in battle and is permanently disfigured. Note: the worth that I am referring to is in dollars..the historical worth may be a thousand times more but it is hard to sell.

Tom W · 03-14-2002, 11:35 AM

xx

03-13-2002, 02:38 PM	#3
mlm Guest Posts: n/a	Re: RESTORED yes or no?? This topic comes up frequently and repainted and rebuilt automobiles are often brought in as an example when asking why a restored luger is not worth nearly as much as an original finish luger. The problem with the analogy is that few if any original finish automobiles are available to collect. If a 98% orig finish car comes up against a 98% restored car, you can bet the orig finish car will have value far beyond the restored car. If there were no original finish lugers available, the highest prices paid for lugers would be for refinished lugers--but that is not the case. This raises the issue restoration as a concept. In reality, you can't restore a luger but only recreate its factory appearance and configuration. Collectors value original information--about the parts, finish and usage of the gun. Refinishing, however good, is still a notch below the information presented to you in a trace of original finish. Therefore, when I value a luger offered for sale, I place a higher value on a low percent original finish luger than a comparable "restored/refinished" luger. The quality of the refinishes varies but a refinish means whatever trace of original information existed in the original finish is now gone and thus the gun is less valuable than one with some orig finish left remaining. When you buy a refinished luger, you are getting less history for your money than with an orig finish luger. To value lugers otherwise, is to value them on cosmetic/artistic appeal rather than historic appeal. Keeping this in mind explains luger prices pretty accurately.

03-13-2002, 02:43 PM	#4
Dok RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Bermuda (Eat Your Heart Out) Posts: 1,626 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Re: RESTORED yes or no?? I guess the real question is... are you buying this as an investment you are planning to sell at a later date, hopefully for a profit? If the answer to the question is "yes", the what you need to consider is, NOT what is appropriate or valuable in your eyes, but what is appropriate and valuable in the eyes of those who would buy your Navy. It is my understanding that a restored pistol is less valuable for trading purposes, which is obviously why it has a lower price tag. If on the other hand you are buying strickly for your own pleasure with not much thought to possible later resale value, then I would opt for the restored Navy, it is in pristine condition and a good price. Hope this helps. Dok

03-13-2002, 08:53 PM	#5
Bill in NH Guest Posts: n/a	Re: RESTORED yes or no?? I understand and thank you for your points of view on this. Yes,history is one reason and resale is another.In some respect,a Luger,with 80% finish left,shows it has a history of a weapon in the use it was intended for, were as a 85 yr.old 1915 that is 100% mint,seems to only have a history of being stored away sence new with not much history to it at all. Maybe I now have a new opinion now about not restoring a Luger with a well worn finish. I guess that worn blue shows it true history after all. Tks. Bill

03-13-2002, 11:17 PM	#6
BILL User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Western Washington Posts: 826 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: RESTORED yes or no?? All things considered, an eighty year old Luger in mint condition that has been 'stored away' (well taken care of) is worth more than an eighty year old Luger that has been used to dig a few trenches in battle and is permanently disfigured. Note: the worth that I am referring to is in dollars..the historical worth may be a thousand times more but it is hard to sell.

03-14-2002, 11:35 AM	#7
Tom W New User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Phila, Pa. Posts: 2 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Excellent response...ntxt xx

03-13-2002, 11:17 AM	#1
Bill in NH Guest Posts: n/a	RESTORED yes or no?? Hello, Just recieved my new list#242 from Ralph Shattuck. Always wanted a matching 6" Navy, but most are out of my reach.Ralph has two closer to my ballpark.Item #113 a 1906 1st Navy,all matching,but restored at $1650,then item #204, a 1920 Navy Commercial,matching,good bore and exc.orig finish at $1900. My question is all things considered,sure a orig finish is great,but what is so wrong with a correctly refinished Luger that still has all it original matching parts? They restore cars and those bring big bucks,even more if the motor has matching numbers to the car.(matchings numbers? seems I heard of that before) Why not bring a older matching number Luger in great shape except with a poor finish back to a good finish.Sort of reminds me of some WW1 German flight badges(along with other types of metals and badges)that have a nice "patinna" to them.Dread the thought of cleaning them,but what Pilot would show up with a tarnished badge on his uniform? I never went to a personal inspection in my 20yrs of military with tarnished wings. Gee, I guess I am way off the point of restoring a Luger,but to me,I cant see why the value of two identical matching lugers,one with orig finish and one restored(properly) can be as much as $3000? I just guess unless I win the "Lotto" Restored Lugers,done correctly,will be more in my price range. Tks,Bill

03-13-2002, 11:43 AM	#2
The Shadow Guest Posts: n/a	RESTORED yes or no?? Just make sure that ""restored'' really means restored (and not just REBLUED!) I find sellers often don't know the difference, when selling. They sure do when they are BUYING! The Shadow Knows!