Help with Unit Marks

Mike B · 06-22-2011, 11:18 AM

Guys,
Can anyone interpret or tell me the meaning of this unit mark?

Thanks,
Mike

abukafura · 06-22-2011, 11:21 AM

This unit mark shows that the Luger belonged to Infantry Regiment 419, 2d company,weapon number 10

Norme · 06-22-2011, 02:13 PM

Those unit marks appear to be smaller than regulation size. Regards, Norm

George Anderson · 06-22-2011, 03:47 PM

Must be a 1915 or later pistol.

Mike B · 06-22-2011, 04:25 PM

OK, I will let the cat out of the bag. It is a 1914 trliple crown X. It's not mine yet, so can't say much more.

Mike

George Anderson · 06-22-2011, 05:11 PM

What's the serial number? You have a real prize there Mike. Good luck.

Mike B · 06-22-2011, 05:16 PM

George,
Thanks for the kind words. The serial number is 8447a.

George Anderson · 06-22-2011, 05:28 PM

Mike, thanks. It hangs out there with another unit marked slick-back 8702a.

Mike B · 06-24-2011, 10:35 PM

Well, we put the deal together today. In his new book, Central Powers Pistols, on page 36, Jan Still lists only 15 others like this one. I feel certain that since this book was printed, more have been accounted for, but this is one not listed. So, Mr.Still, if you happen to read this, here is one you can add for the future. Pictures will follow after it arrives.

Mike

Ron Wood · 06-24-2011, 11:22 PM

Congratulations Mike! Welcome to the club. Mine is one of the 15, #8310a.

Mike B · 06-25-2011, 07:58 AM

Ron, Et al,

Any information on how many of the 15 are unit marked? Maybe we could have a forum roll call to see how many forum members have one of these or know where one is. Possibly get a brief description.

Mike

George Anderson · 06-25-2011, 08:19 AM

I know of four; one is unit marked.

Ron Wood · 06-25-2011, 10:20 AM

Mine is not unit marked.

Mike B · 06-25-2011, 11:25 AM

Well, there's a start. Out of these 6, including the one a have in transit, two are unit marked. Anybody else want to chime in?

Mike

Neil Young · 06-25-2011, 11:31 AM

For those of us who don't know, what accounts for the rarity and desireability of these pistols. Thanks.

Neil

Mike B · 06-25-2011, 11:55 AM

There are very few Lugers with a crown XXX proof. In 1913 and 1914 there was a rush to get more weapons in the hands of the military due to escalating war tension. A few luger that were intended for commercial sales (5 digit serial) were diverted into military service. These Lugers did not have the normal commercial proof. Insteard they are proofed with the triple crown X. These were the 1908 and a few 1914 commercials. To add to this, a few four digit serial 1914 military Lugers were also diverted. They too were proofed with triple X proof. These 1914 military are the subject of this discussion, as only a very few have been accounted for. I feel certain that a more qualified member will add to this. Here is a picture of that proof.

Ron Wood · 06-25-2011, 01:56 PM

As Mike has pointed out, these Triple-X Eagle proofed guns fall into two categories...the 5-digit commercial series that lacks a chamber date and the military style marking of the 4-digit "a" suffix series that is chamber dated 1914. The unusual thing about these limited variations is the 1908 pattern of most of the the guns in 1914, well after the stock lug was introduced. The Commerical 5-digit series might be designated "08/14 Commercial/Military" while the 4-digit "a" series might be designated "08/14 Military". The Commercial guns having a stock lug might be called "1914 Commercial/Military". At least, these are my designations

. All of the known 08/14 Militaries fall into the 8XXXa serial number range. It would appear that the 08/14 Commercial/Miliitaries and 1914 Commercial/Militaries were indeed diverted from Commercial stock, while the 08/14 Militaries were specifically produced for the Army using up existing 1908 frames on hand.

The very limited numbers and unusual configuration and proofs make these variations quite desirable as collector items. Unit marking is icing on the cake.

Don M · 06-25-2011, 03:03 PM

Then, there is this oddball: http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=23910.

Mike B · 03-21-2012, 12:31 AM

Nine months later, another 1914 triple X proof, "a" back popped up. It is on Jans' forum. Serial number is 9377a.

06-22-2011, 11:18 AM	#1
Mike B Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: South Louisiana Posts: 979 Thanks: 1 Thanked 271 Times in 99 Posts	Help with Unit Marks Guys, Can anyone interpret or tell me the meaning of this unit mark? Thanks, Mike Attached Thumbnails

06-24-2011, 10:35 PM	#9
Mike B Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: South Louisiana Posts: 979 Thanks: 1 Thanked 271 Times in 99 Posts	1914 Triple crown X proof Well, we put the deal together today. In his new book, Central Powers Pistols, on page 36, Jan Still lists only 15 others like this one. I feel certain that since this book was printed, more have been accounted for, but this is one not listed. So, Mr.Still, if you happen to read this, here is one you can add for the future. Pictures will follow after it arrives. Mike

06-24-2011, 11:22 PM	#10
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,017 Thanks: 1,089 Thanked 5,164 Times in 1,700 Posts	Congratulations Mike! Welcome to the club. Mine is one of the 15, #8310a. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

06-25-2011, 10:20 AM	#13
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,017 Thanks: 1,089 Thanked 5,164 Times in 1,700 Posts	Mine is not unit marked. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

06-25-2011, 11:31 AM	#15
Neil Young Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Scottsboro, Alabama Posts: 545 Thanks: 559 Thanked 442 Times in 168 Posts	For those of us who don't know, what accounts for the rarity and desireability of these pistols. Thanks. Neil __________________ Neil The hurrier I go the behinder I get. Sometimes it takes me all day to get nothing done.

06-22-2011, 11:21 AM	#2
abukafura Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Northeast Wisconsin, near Greeen Bay Posts: 327 Thanks: 1,314 Thanked 89 Times in 57 Posts	This unit mark shows that the Luger belonged to Infantry Regiment 419, 2d company,weapon number 10

06-22-2011, 02:13 PM	#3
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,603 Times in 933 Posts	Those unit marks appear to be smaller than regulation size. Regards, Norm

06-22-2011, 03:47 PM	#4
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,528 Times in 787 Posts	Must be a 1915 or later pistol.

06-22-2011, 04:25 PM	#5
Mike B Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: South Louisiana Posts: 979 Thanks: 1 Thanked 271 Times in 99 Posts	OK, I will let the cat out of the bag. It is a 1914 trliple crown X. It's not mine yet, so can't say much more. Mike

06-22-2011, 05:11 PM	#6
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,528 Times in 787 Posts	What's the serial number? You have a real prize there Mike. Good luck.

06-22-2011, 05:16 PM	#7
Mike B Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: South Louisiana Posts: 979 Thanks: 1 Thanked 271 Times in 99 Posts	George, Thanks for the kind words. The serial number is 8447a.

06-22-2011, 05:28 PM	#8
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,528 Times in 787 Posts	Mike, thanks. It hangs out there with another unit marked slick-back 8702a.

06-25-2011, 07:58 AM	#11
Mike B Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: South Louisiana Posts: 979 Thanks: 1 Thanked 271 Times in 99 Posts	Ron, Et al, Any information on how many of the 15 are unit marked? Maybe we could have a forum roll call to see how many forum members have one of these or know where one is. Possibly get a brief description. Mike

06-25-2011, 08:19 AM	#12
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,528 Times in 787 Posts	I know of four; one is unit marked.

06-25-2011, 11:25 AM	#14
Mike B Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: South Louisiana Posts: 979 Thanks: 1 Thanked 271 Times in 99 Posts	Well, there's a start. Out of these 6, including the one a have in transit, two are unit marked. Anybody else want to chime in? Mike

06-25-2011, 11:55 AM	#16
Mike B Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: South Louisiana Posts: 979 Thanks: 1 Thanked 271 Times in 99 Posts	Thriple Crown X proof There are very few Lugers with a crown XXX proof. In 1913 and 1914 there was a rush to get more weapons in the hands of the military due to escalating war tension. A few luger that were intended for commercial sales (5 digit serial) were diverted into military service. These Lugers did not have the normal commercial proof. Insteard they are proofed with the triple crown X. These were the 1908 and a few 1914 commercials. To add to this, a few four digit serial 1914 military Lugers were also diverted. They too were proofed with triple X proof. These 1914 military are the subject of this discussion, as only a very few have been accounted for. I feel certain that a more qualified member will add to this. Here is a picture of that proof. Attached Images

06-25-2011, 01:56 PM	#17
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,017 Thanks: 1,089 Thanked 5,164 Times in 1,700 Posts	As Mike has pointed out, these Triple-X Eagle proofed guns fall into two categories...the 5-digit commercial series that lacks a chamber date and the military style marking of the 4-digit "a" suffix series that is chamber dated 1914. The unusual thing about these limited variations is the 1908 pattern of most of the the guns in 1914, well after the stock lug was introduced. The Commerical 5-digit series might be designated "08/14 Commercial/Military" while the 4-digit "a" series might be designated "08/14 Military". The Commercial guns having a stock lug might be called "1914 Commercial/Military". At least, these are my designations . All of the known 08/14 Militaries fall into the 8XXXa serial number range. It would appear that the 08/14 Commercial/Miliitaries and 1914 Commercial/Militaries were indeed diverted from Commercial stock, while the 08/14 Militaries were specifically produced for the Army using up existing 1908 frames on hand. The very limited numbers and unusual configuration and proofs make these variations quite desirable as collector items. Unit marking is icing on the cake. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

06-25-2011, 03:03 PM	#18
Don M Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,429 Thanks: 67 Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts	Then, there is this oddball: http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=23910. __________________ Regards, Don donmaus1@aol.com Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936 http://www.historywritinsteel.com

03-21-2012, 12:31 AM	#19
Mike B Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: South Louisiana Posts: 979 Thanks: 1 Thanked 271 Times in 99 Posts	Nine months later, another 1914 triple X proof, "a" back popped up. It is on Jans' forum. Serial number is 9377a.