Odd Ser #, "Diamonds", Rare?

john · 02-24-2002, 03:32 PM

Saw what I believe to be a .30 cal. commercial Luger yesterday that had an odd style of serial number proceeding and ending with stylized diamond symbols().

On the left front receiver, just below the C/N commercial proof was the serial # C11 6309 . The same ser # appeared on the back of the frame between the lanyard loop and the bottom of the rear toggle. Small parts appeared to be #'d in the commercial fashion. The front frame had the usual odd gothic lower case letter. As near as I could make out, this one was "i".

Does anyone know the significance of the diamond symbols before and after the serial #'s?

Thanks

Dok · 02-24-2002, 04:14 PM

I don't understand what the C11 is preceding the serial number? Lugers never had a letter preceding the serial number that I know of, and 116309 is too high a number even for a commercial Luger. Maybe one of the experts could enlighten me.

Dok

Orv Reichert · 02-24-2002, 07:55 PM

You are talking about a pistol that had the numbers removed at some time.

Later, the police got involved and the gun went to the California state agency [Sacramento] which numbered it with the next number and the CII.

They probably tried to 'raise' the original numbers..not always possible! could not return an gun without a number ..... so..........

I think the Agency is CALIF INVESTIGATION AND IDENTIFICATION or something similar?

If you need, I can get you the correct agency name and address?

Orv Reichert

Dok · 02-24-2002, 09:53 PM

john · 02-25-2002, 02:04 AM

Orv,

All the #'s match. Why would some agency go to the trouble of stamping a new ser # on both the frame and the receiver and do so with the new Ser #'s last two digits matching the other #'d parts?

Orv Reichert · 02-25-2002, 03:35 AM

All I know is that the CII who does the forensic work for the State of Calif. use that CII prefix and a number with the before and after when they apply a number to a gun.[I used to work for a Police Dept in California]

Perhaps the numbers had all been altered..in that case,they would apply the CII number to each location. Naturally, they would not number a gun that had numbers unless they had been altered or obliterated.

I once owned a Mod HP that had been through that process. They renumbered the frame with that exact procedure/marks. We could read the original numbers through the blue on the two other locations [with the proper lighting]

Buxton comments on that procedure in California and other states in his P38 book.

Orv Reichert

02-25-2002, 01:06 PM

Hi Orv,

Sounds like you have the mystery solved.

Thanks,

JPD

02-24-2002, 03:32 PM	#1
john User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 27 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Odd Ser #, "Diamonds", Rare? Saw what I believe to be a .30 cal. commercial Luger yesterday that had an odd style of serial number proceeding and ending with stylized diamond symbols(). On the left front receiver, just below the C/N commercial proof was the serial # C11 6309 . The same ser # appeared on the back of the frame between the lanyard loop and the bottom of the rear toggle. Small parts appeared to be #'d in the commercial fashion. The front frame had the usual odd gothic lower case letter. As near as I could make out, this one was "i". Does anyone know the significance of the diamond symbols before and after the serial #'s? Thanks

02-24-2002, 04:14 PM	#2
Dok RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Bermuda (Eat Your Heart Out) Posts: 1,626 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Re: Odd Ser #, "Diamonds", Rare? I don't understand what the C11 is preceding the serial number? Lugers never had a letter preceding the serial number that I know of, and 116309 is too high a number even for a commercial Luger. Maybe one of the experts could enlighten me. Dok

02-24-2002, 07:55 PM	#3
Orv Reichert RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SW Washington State Posts: 339 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Not Rare You are talking about a pistol that had the numbers removed at some time. Later, the police got involved and the gun went to the California state agency [Sacramento] which numbered it with the next number and the CII. They probably tried to 'raise' the original numbers..not always possible! could not return an gun without a number ..... so.......... I think the Agency is CALIF INVESTIGATION AND IDENTIFICATION or something similar? If you need, I can get you the correct agency name and address? Orv Reichert

02-24-2002, 09:53 PM	#4
Dok RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Bermuda (Eat Your Heart Out) Posts: 1,626 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Thanks Orv! (EOM)

02-25-2002, 02:04 AM	#5
john User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 27 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Question Response Orv, All the #'s match. Why would some agency go to the trouble of stamping a new ser # on both the frame and the receiver and do so with the new Ser #'s last two digits matching the other #'d parts?

02-25-2002, 03:35 AM	#6
Orv Reichert RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SW Washington State Posts: 339 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	response All I know is that the CII who does the forensic work for the State of Calif. use that CII prefix and a number with the before and after when they apply a number to a gun.[I used to work for a Police Dept in California] Perhaps the numbers had all been altered..in that case,they would apply the CII number to each location. Naturally, they would not number a gun that had numbers unless they had been altered or obliterated. I once owned a Mod HP that had been through that process. They renumbered the frame with that exact procedure/marks. We could read the original numbers through the blue on the two other locations [with the proper lighting] Buxton comments on that procedure in California and other states in his P38 book. Orv Reichert

02-25-2002, 01:06 PM	#7
John Drolet Guest Posts: n/a	Re: response Hi Orv, Sounds like you have the mystery solved. Thanks, JPD