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12-03-2011, 06:01 PM | #1 |
Lifer 2X
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Luger Manual
Picked this up today at a local gun show. I know the person I bought it from. He bought it years ago with a lot of other old gun manuals. The envelope it came in is beat up but the manual is mint. Real? Reproduction? Value?
There was another just like this last month on Jan's site.
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12-03-2011, 11:03 PM | #3 |
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Looks good to me Bill. I do have a couple (three actually) and one is just stone mint like yours. Value? $400 +/-
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If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction |
12-04-2011, 12:12 PM | #4 |
Lifer
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Was there a book or instruction written issued with the test pieces or maybe an instructional wall chart?
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12-06-2011, 01:37 PM | #5 | |
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Quote:
This is a good question and one that has no definitive answer. For one of the best analysis I would suggest looking at Chuck Whittaker’s “Land of Borchardt” site and read his article “Early Old Model Commercial Production American Eagle Lugers” which discusses early Lugers and the associated manuals. I will attempt a quick synopsis from his article to give you the best guess as to what manual might have been provided with the 1900 US Test Trials Lugers. There is no concrete evidence in official government documents that has been found to date that positively identifies what manuals may have been provided. However there is one statement that gives a pretty good indication. To quote from Chuck’s article: “In an effort to minimize the problem of misfires, the adjutant General issued a circular, dated September 1902, which stated: “…the attention of all officers to whom the Luger automatic pistols have been issued for trial and report is invited to instructions for cleaning the pistols given in paragraph 8, page 12 of Directions for the Use and Manipulation of the Parabellum Automatic Pistol, issued with the pistols.” It might be assumed, given the date of the trials, the red covered manual of 1902 would be the one provided for the trials. However the Adjutant General’s circular quoted above makes reference to a specific paragraph on a specific page (paragraph 8, page 12) that is only found in the very earliest manual probably published in 1900. This manual has a gray cover and still refers to the “Borchardt-Luger’s System” and “Swiss Regulation Pattern 1900”! There are very few surviving examples of this manual so it would be in the category “extremely rare” and very expensive. This is the manual that I believe would be provided with the 7.65mm Model 1900 US Test Trials Lugers. The 50 examples of the 9mm Cartridge Counter Lugers were most likely accompanied by the red cover 1902 manual for the 7.65mm Model 1900 as there was at that time no specific manual for the 9mm Luger available from DWM. While not as rare as the first manual, this 1902 manual is quite scarce and also expensive...Simpson's currently has one for sale for $1795.
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If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction Last edited by Ron Wood; 12-06-2011 at 02:51 PM. |
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12-06-2011, 05:09 PM | #6 |
Lifer
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Ron You never cease to astounds me. This manual I bought from Checkpoint Charlie goes with my 1937 Kreighoff. I have been looking for the a French version to go with my 1906 Frenchy>>> Any suggestions?
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12-06-2011, 07:25 PM | #7 |
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Eric,
Again, I would suggest you visit the "Land of Borchardt" site. Several variations of manuals are illustrated there as well as several articles. The manual that would be most appropriate for a 1906 French is the pre-war DWM manual in the same format as the one Bill posted at the start of this thread, except it has a blue cover, is titled "le pistolet automatique PARABELLUM" and of course is written in French. I have never seen one for sale myself, but they probably show up from time to time. I have the earlier and larger 1902 version that goes with my 1903 French.
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If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction |
12-06-2011, 07:43 PM | #8 |
Lifer
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PURE CLASS!!!!!!!!!as always!! How many different varieties werre published? How can you tell the originals?
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12-07-2011, 07:59 PM | #9 |
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Eric, you have one PM
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Best regards from France...Patrice https://www.fichier-pdf.fr/2016/03/1...nd-snail-drum/ |
12-07-2011, 09:18 PM | #10 |
Lifer
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No Not Yet!
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12-08-2011, 06:16 AM | #11 |
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Bill,
I have a feeling that your Parabellum manual is a repro. Compare your manual to the lot which was recently sold at RIA. The manual on the left in correct/original and the one on the right is a repro. I suppose that Ron has made a mistake. |
12-08-2011, 09:44 AM | #12 |
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Daniel,
Bill and I have been having some private discussions and have made the same observation. The type of manual that Bill posted has been around at least since the late 1950s-early 1960s that we know of, so we are not sure of the origin. It appears that it may be a reprint but we do not know by whom.
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If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction |
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