authentic or reproduction

tobeyschwartz · 09-28-2011, 11:12 PM

I have what appears to be a WWII German Luger BUT there are NO stamps or serial numbers anywhere except above the grip on the left side which has
1720
P08
Parabellum
It looks like it was used a good amount of times. Barrel and square piece above trigger look worn or even lightly sanded.
Thanks,
Tobey

DavidJayUden · 09-28-2011, 11:43 PM

1970's Mauser Parabellum perhaps? We need pictures.
dju

Edward Tinker · 09-28-2011, 11:45 PM

Tobey, it would not be a reproduction... Can you post pictures of it?

Could very well be a parts gun put together or have been buffed and the other markings are gone?

The P08 was on Mauser made lugers, on the left side, but yours also says parabellum?

Ed

tobeyschwartz · 09-29-2011, 09:56 AM

It was difficult to get a picture of the stamp because it is worn but I think you can see the --1720, P-08

alanint · 09-29-2011, 10:00 AM

This is a replica model made in Japan in the 1970s or 80s. They are made out of pot metal and although they mechanically function like a real luger, they will not chamber or fire real ammunition. Do not try to fit real ammo into this gun. Although the chances of a detonation are next to nothing, should a round somehow go off, it would have disastrous consequences.

tobeyschwartz · 09-29-2011, 10:08 AM

Thank you for the information and your expertise!
Tobey

MrSmith · 10-01-2011, 04:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanint

This is a replica model made in Japan in the 1970s or 80s. They are made out of pot metal and although they mechanically function like a real luger, they will not chamber or fire real ammunition. Do not try to fit real ammo into this gun. Although the chances of a detonation are next to nothing, should a round somehow go off, it would have disastrous consequences.

Is this a Denix Luger?

You can still buy these new

It appears to be one that has had the writing on the side scrubbed off.

See here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RHmFCw_vus

alanint · 10-01-2011, 06:29 AM

It does look closer to the Denix replica, which is made in Spain, than the Japanese MGC or Airsoft replicas. There are a number of companies still turning out replica Lugers.

hansfischer007 · 10-01-2011, 10:18 AM

Many years ago...I picked up an MGC replica of the German Schmeisser MP40....Submachine gun....got it at a Military Show in Atlanta....it had been passed around thru a few hands...had some dings and scuffs on it...but the interesting part was it had an Original Magazine and leather sling...I used to take it to our Military shows for a Table exhibit...however every one thought it was real and wanted to always handle it.....I had a Police officer friend of mine look at it and he thought it was "the real thing" kept asking.. "where the heck did you get this.?"....supposedly when the MGC replicas came out in the early 60s....they also made an UZI...and the barrel could be screwed off....the urban legend was...some idiot screwed off the pot metal barrel ...screwed a real UZI barrel on....loaded the mag...and got about 18-20 rounds off before it blew up......The Schmeisser and UZI were made to fire blanks full auto...(Ive never tried)....gave it to my youngest son who is a Police Officer for his Library.....but Ive heard a lot of silly stories on what some people did with the MGC replicas.....anyone else heard the same..???......

alanint · 10-01-2011, 01:47 PM

I still have the MGC MP40 I got in 1968. The first guns had the ejector right in the middle of the receiver and would accept a real MP40 bolt. If you drilled out the pot metal trunion it would also accept a real MP40 barrel. These would fire but the weak trunion would eventually give out.
Later guns had the ejector block placed off center so an original bolt could not longer be put in.
I'm surprised yours had an original magazine, since the replica mag was a bit bigger and real mags would be very loose in the mag well.

hansfischer007 · 10-01-2011, 03:37 PM

Yes..I was real surprised at the Original Mag when I bought it....had Waffenamts on the bottom....and the Sling was stamped as well..........as it appeared that the Schmeisser had passed thru a few hands....it had that worn "been there combat look to it"......and the mag fit just fine with no problem...........the fun part was......my son and I flew to Atlanta on Delta...we were living in Memphis at that time.....this was in the late 70s.....so when I went to the airport.....had my son go get a garment bag box and tape....then I bought a Sunday Atlanta paper....we got over in the corner ....took mag out...wrapped the Schmeisser in paper....then double taped the box......when we put it on the scale......the agent behind the counter said.....what you got in this..?...a bowling ball?....I told him I was an Antique Book Dealer and we had just been to a Book Fair....it was full of books.......they never looked......the "Good Ole days"....and it rode just fine........

alanint · 10-01-2011, 04:27 PM

My best times are when we fly to the Knob Creek Machinegun shoot twice a year.

You haven't lived until you are at an airport check-in counter taking M60s, MAG 58s and Browning 1919A4s out of their cases to show airline people they are not loaded before checking them in. It does wonders for the nerves of the people behind you in line. Hmmm, what flight are you on?? 8^)

MrSmith · 10-02-2011, 05:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanint

It does look closer to the Denix replica, which is made in Spain, than the Japanese MGC or Airsoft replicas. There are a number of companies still turning out replica Lugers.

Are replica Lugers collectable in their own right?

I mean some of the older, better produced examples made in metal?

Do we know what brands of replicas for example are used in such and such a film?

alanint · 10-02-2011, 07:10 AM

I am sure someone out there is collecting them, although I don't think there is enough appeal at this time to really create a "market", (although I've been offered up to $400 for my MGC MP40!!).
There is no way to know what replicas were/are used in movies. When Stembridge Gun Rental's inventory was sold off some years ago, it consisted of all original guns, some blanked, some not. Hollywood also uses cast metal replicas for background as well as resin and rubber firearms, depending on their use in a movie. That being said, all the Lugers I have ever seen in movies appear to be real ones.

hansfischer007 · 10-02-2011, 10:47 AM

Personally.....I would just love to hear the story about Tobeys "luger" ..did someone sell as an "Original WW2 German Officers Pistol" as is shown on the hang tag..??....where was it offered and for how much..?....It never ceases to amaze me what some Dealers...Antique shops..etc.....will offer for sale to the public........We have an antique shop here in "The Boro" that has an "Original photo of Hitlers house" for sale for $150.00.......its an old old COPY of a poster....anyway...would love to know who sold it and how much.?

tobeyschwartz · 10-02-2011, 11:53 AM

I found this in my mother's house. My father was in WWII and has a swastika flag and a few other "souvenirs" he brought back with him, but not this. It was in my brothers room, he was not in the service, and passed away 2 yrs ago at age 59. Then I remembered a cousin who lived with us on and off back in the late 80's, early 90's. One of his unreported careers was B & E's. I'm thinking he removed this as payment for one of his night shifts, and the owner bought this thinking it was the real deal or my cousin bought it, also thinking it was authentic, and that is why the tag is still on as an "officers pistol" and it was tucked away in the back of a closet.

09-28-2011, 11:12 PM	#1
tobeyschwartz New User Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	authentic or reproduction I have what appears to be a WWII German Luger BUT there are NO stamps or serial numbers anywhere except above the grip on the left side which has 1720 P08 Parabellum It looks like it was used a good amount of times. Barrel and square piece above trigger look worn or even lightly sanded. Thanks, Tobey

09-28-2011, 11:45 PM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,916 Thanks: 1,995 Thanked 4,507 Times in 2,081 Posts	Tobey, it would not be a reproduction... Can you post pictures of it? Could very well be a parts gun put together or have been buffed and the other markings are gone? The P08 was on Mauser made lugers, on the left side, but yours also says parabellum? Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

09-29-2011, 09:56 AM	#4
tobeyschwartz New User Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	pictures It was difficult to get a picture of the stamp because it is worn but I think you can see the --1720, P-08 Attached Thumbnails

09-29-2011, 10:08 AM	#6
tobeyschwartz New User Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	authentic or reproduction Thank you for the information and your expertise! Tobey

10-01-2011, 10:18 AM	#9
hansfischer007 User Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Sunny Tennessee Posts: 233 Thanks: 509 Thanked 96 Times in 48 Posts	MGC Relicas Many years ago...I picked up an MGC replica of the German Schmeisser MP40....Submachine gun....got it at a Military Show in Atlanta....it had been passed around thru a few hands...had some dings and scuffs on it...but the interesting part was it had an Original Magazine and leather sling...I used to take it to our Military shows for a Table exhibit...however every one thought it was real and wanted to always handle it.....I had a Police officer friend of mine look at it and he thought it was "the real thing" kept asking.. "where the heck did you get this.?"....supposedly when the MGC replicas came out in the early 60s....they also made an UZI...and the barrel could be screwed off....the urban legend was...some idiot screwed off the pot metal barrel ...screwed a real UZI barrel on....loaded the mag...and got about 18-20 rounds off before it blew up......The Schmeisser and UZI were made to fire blanks full auto...(Ive never tried)....gave it to my youngest son who is a Police Officer for his Library.....but Ive heard a lot of silly stories on what some people did with the MGC replicas.....anyone else heard the same..???......

09-28-2011, 11:43 PM	#2
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	1970's Mauser Parabellum perhaps? We need pictures. dju

09-29-2011, 10:00 AM	#5
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	This is a replica model made in Japan in the 1970s or 80s. They are made out of pot metal and although they mechanically function like a real luger, they will not chamber or fire real ammunition. Do not try to fit real ammo into this gun. Although the chances of a detonation are next to nothing, should a round somehow go off, it would have disastrous consequences.

10-01-2011, 06:29 AM	#8
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	It does look closer to the Denix replica, which is made in Spain, than the Japanese MGC or Airsoft replicas. There are a number of companies still turning out replica Lugers.

10-01-2011, 01:47 PM	#10
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	I still have the MGC MP40 I got in 1968. The first guns had the ejector right in the middle of the receiver and would accept a real MP40 bolt. If you drilled out the pot metal trunion it would also accept a real MP40 barrel. These would fire but the weak trunion would eventually give out. Later guns had the ejector block placed off center so an original bolt could not longer be put in. I'm surprised yours had an original magazine, since the replica mag was a bit bigger and real mags would be very loose in the mag well.

10-01-2011, 03:37 PM	#11
hansfischer007 User Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Sunny Tennessee Posts: 233 Thanks: 509 Thanked 96 Times in 48 Posts	MGC Schmeisser Yes..I was real surprised at the Original Mag when I bought it....had Waffenamts on the bottom....and the Sling was stamped as well..........as it appeared that the Schmeisser had passed thru a few hands....it had that worn "been there combat look to it"......and the mag fit just fine with no problem...........the fun part was......my son and I flew to Atlanta on Delta...we were living in Memphis at that time.....this was in the late 70s.....so when I went to the airport.....had my son go get a garment bag box and tape....then I bought a Sunday Atlanta paper....we got over in the corner ....took mag out...wrapped the Schmeisser in paper....then double taped the box......when we put it on the scale......the agent behind the counter said.....what you got in this..?...a bowling ball?....I told him I was an Antique Book Dealer and we had just been to a Book Fair....it was full of books.......they never looked......the "Good Ole days"....and it rode just fine........

10-01-2011, 04:27 PM	#12
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	My best times are when we fly to the Knob Creek Machinegun shoot twice a year. You haven't lived until you are at an airport check-in counter taking M60s, MAG 58s and Browning 1919A4s out of their cases to show airline people they are not loaded before checking them in. It does wonders for the nerves of the people behind you in line. Hmmm, what flight are you on?? 8^)

10-02-2011, 07:10 AM	#14
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	I am sure someone out there is collecting them, although I don't think there is enough appeal at this time to really create a "market", (although I've been offered up to $400 for my MGC MP40!!). There is no way to know what replicas were/are used in movies. When Stembridge Gun Rental's inventory was sold off some years ago, it consisted of all original guns, some blanked, some not. Hollywood also uses cast metal replicas for background as well as resin and rubber firearms, depending on their use in a movie. That being said, all the Lugers I have ever seen in movies appear to be real ones.

10-02-2011, 10:47 AM	#15
hansfischer007 User Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Sunny Tennessee Posts: 233 Thanks: 509 Thanked 96 Times in 48 Posts	Replica or Real/? Personally.....I would just love to hear the story about Tobeys "luger" ..did someone sell as an "Original WW2 German Officers Pistol" as is shown on the hang tag..??....where was it offered and for how much..?....It never ceases to amaze me what some Dealers...Antique shops..etc.....will offer for sale to the public........We have an antique shop here in "The Boro" that has an "Original photo of Hitlers house" for sale for $150.00.......its an old old COPY of a poster....anyway...would love to know who sold it and how much.?

10-02-2011, 11:53 AM	#16
tobeyschwartz New User Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	stolen goods I found this in my mother's house. My father was in WWII and has a swastika flag and a few other "souvenirs" he brought back with him, but not this. It was in my brothers room, he was not in the service, and passed away 2 yrs ago at age 59. Then I remembered a cousin who lived with us on and off back in the late 80's, early 90's. One of his unreported careers was B & E's. I'm thinking he removed this as payment for one of his night shifts, and the owner bought this thinking it was the real deal or my cousin bought it, also thinking it was authentic, and that is why the tag is still on as an "officers pistol" and it was tucked away in the back of a closet.