Mauser PO8 Luger serial no. question

rustyzipper · 09-05-2011, 12:05 PM

I just got done registering and have a question for you Luger experts. I have no pictures but will try to describe what I have.
It is a dated 1939 with only a 42 on the toggle. With 2 stick Eagles on the right side frame with 63 below them. Walnut checkered grips in good shape. Bore good and shiny. Blueing at 85% left. All the parts except the clip which is not original have the number 23 on them. I assume those are the last two numbers of the serial number but even the left side of the frame where you find the total serial number still says 23. Also under the barrel on the frame only has 23 also. It does not appear that a total serial number has been ground or scrubbed off. Could this actually be serial number 23 that I have or is there some other reason for this? I paid $1000 for it from my friend's friend who was born here but his dad was on a U boat but moved to this country in 1951 and brought this with him along with a Walther P38 with holster in great condition which I bought also for $400. I don't understand why there is no complete serial number? Thanks.

alanint · 09-05-2011, 12:45 PM

This could very well be the complete serial number of the first run for 1939, (if there is no letter suffix).

rustyzipper · 09-05-2011, 12:55 PM

Alanint, have you seen others with only 2 numbers that were of the first run? And the big question, does that make this example more rarer than a higher serial number? Also, I took the grips off and there are no serial numbers on the inside of the wood. And the clip is an ERMA.

alanint · 09-05-2011, 12:59 PM

Yes, I have seen other guns with only two digit serial numbers and no suffix. There were at least 99 of them produced every year of Luger production. They command no additional premiums, unless somebody really wants it for personal reasons. Collectors rather look for condition, completeness, rarity, etc. rather than low serial numbers.

rustyzipper · 09-05-2011, 01:05 PM

And also underneath the barrel it reads 23 and below that 8.83 which I see from the sticky is the bore gauge. Below that on front frame is also 23 with a fancy W. Sorry I sound like a novice but have never studied Lugers before.

Edward Tinker · 09-05-2011, 02:20 PM

So, yours is sn 23w / they made 10,000 at a time for each suffix, although I am unsure if your year started as 23 no suffix

Ed

rustyzipper · 09-05-2011, 03:13 PM

Ed, I see no W anywhere except on the front of the frame and there is what looks like a fancy W underneath the 23. It is not 23W or W23.

Norme · 09-05-2011, 03:31 PM

Hi John, The suffix appears beneath the frame serial number, and no place else, as shown in the photo. Regards, Norm

rustyzipper · 09-05-2011, 04:16 PM

Thanks Norm, so the example in your picture is 4770Y, is that correct? So I am assuming that mine is the 23rd Mauser in the W series. All this is very interesting. Are there three different bore sizes for my model? Mine is 8.83. Do all three shoot the same ammo? I know its a dumb question.

alanint · 09-05-2011, 04:21 PM

Hi John,

Your gun is, indeed number 23W. The bore size was the German's precise way of keeping quality control. All the bore sizes that start with 8.8_ are for the 9mm Luger round.

Norme · 09-05-2011, 04:38 PM

Hi John, As Alan has said, 8,83 is the bore diameter in mm. from land to land. I can't imagine that stamping this number served any useful purpose, it's just another example of what can happen when one toilet trains children too early. Regards, Norm

rustyzipper · 09-06-2011, 09:10 AM

Now with what I have described with no pictures, is my gun in the $1000-$1500 range or $1500-$2500 range. Just a rough estimate would help. Thanks.

Edward Tinker · 09-06-2011, 09:18 AM

no, impossible to say without pictures and your amounts seem pretty wide spread

Lugerdoc · 09-06-2011, 11:19 AM

1939 PO8 production began in the mid n suffix block with an S/42 marked toggle code until the mid r block, when the code became just 42. These ran thru the z block, so your w block suffix is correct for your year and toggle code. See Still's "Third Reich Lugers". TH

rustyzipper · 09-06-2011, 05:51 PM

Lugerdoc, just to clarify, Mine is only a 42 on toggle instead of S42.

rustyzipper · 09-06-2011, 05:57 PM

Sorry about that, it is my reading comprehension problems showing up.

mrerick · 09-06-2011, 09:02 PM

John,

If your Luger has the correct "23" on all the normally numbered parts and the grips are original and correct to your pistol, you've paid at the high end of price for a "Shooter" and the low end for a "collectible" all matching Luger.

If there are any non-matching parts (with a number other than "23") this reduces it's value.

At 85% finish coverage, you are at the very low end of what is considered "collectible", and it might only be considered a "shooter". Pictures would help us judge.

The "ERMA" magazine is post war, and less valuable than one from WW-II. Value perhaps $75 in very good condition.

The "S/42" or "42" found on the forward toggle is a German code identifying the firearm as manufactured by "Mauser".

Marc

09-05-2011, 12:05 PM	#1
rustyzipper User Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Mauser PO8 Luger serial no. question I just got done registering and have a question for you Luger experts. I have no pictures but will try to describe what I have. It is a dated 1939 with only a 42 on the toggle. With 2 stick Eagles on the right side frame with 63 below them. Walnut checkered grips in good shape. Bore good and shiny. Blueing at 85% left. All the parts except the clip which is not original have the number 23 on them. I assume those are the last two numbers of the serial number but even the left side of the frame where you find the total serial number still says 23. Also under the barrel on the frame only has 23 also. It does not appear that a total serial number has been ground or scrubbed off. Could this actually be serial number 23 that I have or is there some other reason for this? I paid $1000 for it from my friend's friend who was born here but his dad was on a U boat but moved to this country in 1951 and brought this with him along with a Walther P38 with holster in great condition which I bought also for $400. I don't understand why there is no complete serial number? Thanks.

09-05-2011, 02:20 PM	#6
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,927 Thanks: 2,026 Thanked 4,525 Times in 2,090 Posts	So, yours is sn 23w / they made 10,000 at a time for each suffix, although I am unsure if your year started as 23 no suffix Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

09-05-2011, 03:31 PM	#8
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,603 Times in 933 Posts	Hi John, The suffix appears beneath the frame serial number, and no place else, as shown in the photo. Regards, Norm Attached Thumbnails

09-06-2011, 11:19 AM	#14
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	1939 PO8 production began in the mid n suffix block with an S/42 marked toggle code until the mid r block, when the code became just 42. These ran thru the z block, so your w block suffix is correct for your year and toggle code. See Still's "Third Reich Lugers". TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

09-06-2011, 09:02 PM	#17
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,907 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,108 Times in 1,509 Posts	John, If your Luger has the correct "23" on all the normally numbered parts and the grips are original and correct to your pistol, you've paid at the high end of price for a "Shooter" and the low end for a "collectible" all matching Luger. If there are any non-matching parts (with a number other than "23") this reduces it's value. At 85% finish coverage, you are at the very low end of what is considered "collectible", and it might only be considered a "shooter". Pictures would help us judge. The "ERMA" magazine is post war, and less valuable than one from WW-II. Value perhaps $75 in very good condition. The "S/42" or "42" found on the forward toggle is a German code identifying the firearm as manufactured by "Mauser". Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

09-05-2011, 12:45 PM	#2
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	This could very well be the complete serial number of the first run for 1939, (if there is no letter suffix).

09-05-2011, 12:55 PM	#3
rustyzipper User Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Alanint, have you seen others with only 2 numbers that were of the first run? And the big question, does that make this example more rarer than a higher serial number? Also, I took the grips off and there are no serial numbers on the inside of the wood. And the clip is an ERMA.

09-05-2011, 12:59 PM	#4
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Yes, I have seen other guns with only two digit serial numbers and no suffix. There were at least 99 of them produced every year of Luger production. They command no additional premiums, unless somebody really wants it for personal reasons. Collectors rather look for condition, completeness, rarity, etc. rather than low serial numbers.

09-05-2011, 01:05 PM	#5
rustyzipper User Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	And also underneath the barrel it reads 23 and below that 8.83 which I see from the sticky is the bore gauge. Below that on front frame is also 23 with a fancy W. Sorry I sound like a novice but have never studied Lugers before.

09-05-2011, 03:13 PM	#7
rustyzipper User Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ed, I see no W anywhere except on the front of the frame and there is what looks like a fancy W underneath the 23. It is not 23W or W23.

09-05-2011, 04:16 PM	#9
rustyzipper User Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks Norm, so the example in your picture is 4770Y, is that correct? So I am assuming that mine is the 23rd Mauser in the W series. All this is very interesting. Are there three different bore sizes for my model? Mine is 8.83. Do all three shoot the same ammo? I know its a dumb question.

09-05-2011, 04:21 PM	#10
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Hi John, Your gun is, indeed number 23W. The bore size was the German's precise way of keeping quality control. All the bore sizes that start with 8.8_ are for the 9mm Luger round.

09-05-2011, 04:38 PM	#11
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,603 Times in 933 Posts	Hi John, As Alan has said, 8,83 is the bore diameter in mm. from land to land. I can't imagine that stamping this number served any useful purpose, it's just another example of what can happen when one toilet trains children too early. Regards, Norm

09-06-2011, 09:10 AM	#12
rustyzipper User Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Now with what I have described with no pictures, is my gun in the $1000-$1500 range or $1500-$2500 range. Just a rough estimate would help. Thanks.

09-06-2011, 09:18 AM	#13
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,927 Thanks: 2,026 Thanked 4,525 Times in 2,090 Posts	no, impossible to say without pictures and your amounts seem pretty wide spread

09-06-2011, 05:51 PM	#15
rustyzipper User Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Lugerdoc, just to clarify, Mine is only a 42 on toggle instead of S42.

09-06-2011, 05:57 PM	#16
rustyzipper User Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Sorry about that, it is my reading comprehension problems showing up.