Questions about what I think is a frankenluger

Knight Diver · 08-11-2011, 04:32 PM

Last weekend I saw a vendor at a gun show trying to sell a "1906 Navy Luger" that was very suspicious, even to me, a newbie! I got to handle it and this is all from memory.

The toggle had DWM marking on it. That seems proper.

The frame had no date on it at all. Didn't look like it was polished off even though it was refinished. It looked like it was never marked with a year. First question is what kind of frame would not have a date on it?

The barrel had no serial number on it. Second question is does that necessarily mean a replacement barrel?

On the right side of the frame there was one proof mark. It was a "crown N." That isn't right for a navy luger. It should be "crown M," correct?

The side plate had no serial number on it. Does that mean it was replaced?

The vendor was an older gentleman with lots of older guns he was selling. I didn't want to be rude to him, but I think he knew what he had and was trying to find a sucker. His asking price was $6400. That's right. Six THOUSAND four hundred.

I think it was parts from a standard military luger with a replacement barrel made to look like a navy luger. Can some of you more luger-knowledgeable folks enlighten me?

Thanks!

mrerick · 08-11-2011, 05:18 PM

The C/N proof is a "Nitro" proof applied to a commercial Luger when it's passed firing the proof load.

A Navy Luger should have C/M markings. You'll find several pictures of actual Navy Lugers on this site.

Was it in 9mm Luger or .30 Luger caliber?

It's most likely that it was a DWM commercial. Those are often the donor for a faked Navy Luger.

Hard to be specific without pictures, which you likely don't have... Oh well. Check out the real ones posted on this site and let us know from your memory how close his Luger was...

Pictures of the real thing were just posted over on Jan Still's site:

http://luger.gunboards.com/showthread.php?t=27973

Marc

Knight Diver · 08-11-2011, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrerick

Was it in 9mm Luger or .30 Luger caliber?

I didn't think to ask. Since there was no marking on the barrel, the caliber measurement wasn't there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrerick

Hard to be specific without pictures, which you likely don't have... Oh well. Check out the real ones posted on this site and let us know from your memory how close his Luger was...

Right. No photos. They don't allow cameras into this gun show.

Likely I'll see it the next time they hold the show there. He was there at the previous one. I'm going to brush up some more on navy lugers and have a better reference.

Can you give me any info on the lack of a year on the top of the frame near the barrel?

sheepherder · 08-11-2011, 06:10 PM

Did it have a Navy rear sight???

Knight Diver · 08-11-2011, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by postino

Did it have a Navy rear sight???

For some reason I had forgotten about that when I was looking at it. I don't think so, but I'm not positive. Like I said, I'm going to be better informed next time I go there. I expect he'll be there unless he finds a buyer...doesn't seem likely...

Norme · 08-11-2011, 06:47 PM

Hi Dave, 1906 and 1908 Navies were undated. Only the 1914 Navies (dated 1916 and 1917) had dates on their chambers. They were also dated on their left frame rails and front sight blocks. All Imperial Navies had serial numbered and Navy proofed barrels, but none carried the bore measurement. Navy Lugers are a different animal and you should do your homework before you even think of spending $6,000.00. Good luck! Norm

Edward Tinker · 08-12-2011, 03:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knight Diver

For some reason I had forgotten about that when I was looking at it. I don't think so, but I'm not positive. Like I said, I'm going to be better informed next time I go there. I expect he'll be there unless he finds a buyer...doesn't seem likely...

Hey, I have been there, see what I think is a great deal, but not sure, I go back home, come to the forums, look in my books and then I am even more puzzled!

Best of luck and hope you get lucky!!

Ed

Knight Diver · 08-12-2011, 03:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norme

Hi Dave, 1906 and 1908 Navies were undated. Only the 1914 Navies (dated 1916 and 1917) had dates on their chambers. They were also dated on their left frame rails and front sight blocks. All Imperial Navies had serial numbered and Navy proofed barrels, but none carried the bore measurement. Navy Lugers are a different animal and you should do your homework before you even think of spending $6,000.00. Good luck! Norm

Thanks, Norm. I had no intention of spending that money on this gun. I was sure it was a fake, but I wanted to get some details here.

08-11-2011, 04:32 PM	#1
Knight Diver User Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 23 Thanks: 7 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Questions about what I think is a frankenluger Last weekend I saw a vendor at a gun show trying to sell a "1906 Navy Luger" that was very suspicious, even to me, a newbie! I got to handle it and this is all from memory. The toggle had DWM marking on it. That seems proper. The frame had no date on it at all. Didn't look like it was polished off even though it was refinished. It looked like it was never marked with a year. First question is what kind of frame would not have a date on it? The barrel had no serial number on it. Second question is does that necessarily mean a replacement barrel? On the right side of the frame there was one proof mark. It was a "crown N." That isn't right for a navy luger. It should be "crown M," correct? The side plate had no serial number on it. Does that mean it was replaced? The vendor was an older gentleman with lots of older guns he was selling. I didn't want to be rude to him, but I think he knew what he had and was trying to find a sucker. His asking price was $6400. That's right. Six THOUSAND four hundred. I think it was parts from a standard military luger with a replacement barrel made to look like a navy luger. Can some of you more luger-knowledgeable folks enlighten me? Thanks!

08-11-2011, 05:18 PM	#2
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,901 Thanks: 1,372 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	The C/N proof is a "Nitro" proof applied to a commercial Luger when it's passed firing the proof load. A Navy Luger should have C/M markings. You'll find several pictures of actual Navy Lugers on this site. Was it in 9mm Luger or .30 Luger caliber? It's most likely that it was a DWM commercial. Those are often the donor for a faked Navy Luger. Hard to be specific without pictures, which you likely don't have... Oh well. Check out the real ones posted on this site and let us know from your memory how close his Luger was... Pictures of the real thing were just posted over on Jan Still's site: http://luger.gunboards.com/showthread.php?t=27973 Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

08-11-2011, 06:10 PM	#4
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,182 Thanks: 1,398 Thanked 4,440 Times in 2,328 Posts	Did it have a Navy rear sight??? __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

08-11-2011, 06:47 PM	#6
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,415 Thanks: 225 Thanked 2,594 Times in 931 Posts	Hi Dave, 1906 and 1908 Navies were undated. Only the 1914 Navies (dated 1916 and 1917) had dates on their chambers. They were also dated on their left frame rails and front sight blocks. All Imperial Navies had serial numbered and Navy proofed barrels, but none carried the bore measurement. Navy Lugers are a different animal and you should do your homework before you even think of spending $6,000.00. Good luck! Norm