Mongrel Navy

nukem556 · 07-23-2011, 05:29 PM

Was at a local gun show today, and saw a strange rig...the upper and barrel were good looking crown M'd but small toggle pin flange, barrel ser # 284. The frame was long version, wide grip safety, Gesichert upper position, not altered , ser# 121 cursive L and back of grip strap marked W.K 5121...the Navy holster and cleaning rod look good, but im far from an expert...if its a repro, its been skillfully aged. Question is....knowing at best its a mix of parts, it can probably be had for 1600.00...is it worth that for at least its pieces and as a shooter?

sheepherder · 07-23-2011, 05:49 PM

Long frame??? Does the front edge of the receiver line up with the frame, or is there a definite offset??? Like the width of the barrel flange???

If I really wanted a Navy, I would go for $1600...Mismatched upper/lower doesn't bother me...

...But I'm not a collector...

Norme · 07-23-2011, 05:50 PM

Hi Bob, It sounds like an interesting gun! The top half could be genuine, 1906 Navies had small flange rear toggle pins. If you are mistaken about that l suffix, and it is in fact a cursive b, then the bottom half could be authentic as well. If not, then it's a total fabrication. If the holster is in decent shape, and the rod is genuine, then this rig could well be worth $1,600.00, even if the gun is fake. Regards, Norm
P.S. Keep us posted!

nukem556 · 07-23-2011, 06:37 PM

Thanks, guys.....the receiver and frame are flush at the front, so i think both are long variety. If I go back tomorrow I might take a cam and see if I can get some pics....whats a real Navy holster in fairly decent shape worth?

Norme · 07-23-2011, 06:49 PM

Hi Bob, A decent, genuine, Navy holster could be worth $750.00 to $1,500.00, depending, of course, on condition. Rods go as high as $1,000.00 at Simpsons. Be careful, there are lots of fakes out there. Regards, Norm

nukem556 · 07-24-2011, 05:58 PM

Heres some lousy iPhone pics of the holster.....it's marked on the back "Joh Huber Munchen" but I dont see any M's or anchor stamps anywhere. Norm was also correct, the frame ser # is 121b. I realize the pics arent much, but any guesses if its real?

Norme · 07-24-2011, 07:42 PM

Hi Bob, Given the limitations of your photos, I don't see anything wrong with either the holster or the rod. Joh. Huber was a well known maker of Navy holsters, and, more often than not, they were not C/M marked. It looks like you have quite a find there. Best regards, Norm

lugerholsterrepair · 07-24-2011, 08:11 PM

Bob, I agree with Norm..The holster looks like a very decent type 2. I can't say about the rod..The barrel looks fatter than I like to see..Might be the angle. focus or whatever. Also there is no patina on the steel shaft. Regardless of all that the holster is worth what the guy is asking.
Many of these holsters have the Crown M marking on the underside of the top and they are hard to see in the suede leather.
Your crazy not to get your hands on this rig no matter what the pistol is.

nukem556 · 07-24-2011, 08:12 PM

Thanks, Norm....I'm not much for holsters and accesories, my thinking was if I could get the whole rig for 1600 and sell the rod and holster, I could end up with the mixed Navy Luger nearly free.....yeah,I'm cheap that way

nukem556 · 07-24-2011, 09:42 PM

sigh, well, knowing that I know very little and knowing from what I've read about Navy fakery, I wimped out and let it go....the show was closed before I got to read the responses from you guys....now it seems it may be worth tracking the guy down...also, like a dummy I didnt examine the takedown tool in the little pouch, it could be anything I suppose....has this model holster and manufacturer been faked before?

lugerholsterrepair · 07-24-2011, 09:55 PM

Bob, has this model holster and manufacturer been faked before?

No and that's not a fake holster. I suspect you might have left the better part of 2K on the table. If it makes you feel any better..because of the economy being the way it is..more like only $1500. Knowledge is Power that equals $$$. You have to know what your looking at...

nukem556 · 07-24-2011, 10:32 PM

agreed, Jerry...thats why I came to you guys! All may not be lost...I think I can get ahold of the guy.

07-23-2011, 05:29 PM	#1
nukem556 User Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Irmo, SC Posts: 625 Thanks: 35 Thanked 168 Times in 107 Posts	Mongrel Navy Was at a local gun show today, and saw a strange rig...the upper and barrel were good looking crown M'd but small toggle pin flange, barrel ser # 284. The frame was long version, wide grip safety, Gesichert upper position, not altered , ser# 121 cursive L and back of grip strap marked W.K 5121...the Navy holster and cleaning rod look good, but im far from an expert...if its a repro, its been skillfully aged. Question is....knowing at best its a mix of parts, it can probably be had for 1600.00...is it worth that for at least its pieces and as a shooter?

07-23-2011, 05:49 PM	#2
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,183 Thanks: 1,400 Thanked 4,442 Times in 2,330 Posts	Long frame??? Does the front edge of the receiver line up with the frame, or is there a definite offset??? Like the width of the barrel flange??? If I really wanted a Navy, I would go for $1600...Mismatched upper/lower doesn't bother me... ...But I'm not a collector... __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

07-24-2011, 05:58 PM	#6
nukem556 User Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Irmo, SC Posts: 625 Thanks: 35 Thanked 168 Times in 107 Posts	Heres some lousy iPhone pics of the holster.....it's marked on the back "Joh Huber Munchen" but I dont see any M's or anchor stamps anywhere. Norm was also correct, the frame ser # is 121b. I realize the pics arent much, but any guesses if its real? Attached Thumbnails

07-24-2011, 08:11 PM	#8
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,933 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Bob, I agree with Norm..The holster looks like a very decent type 2. I can't say about the rod..The barrel looks fatter than I like to see..Might be the angle. focus or whatever. Also there is no patina on the steel shaft. Regardless of all that the holster is worth what the guy is asking. Many of these holsters have the Crown M marking on the underside of the top and they are hard to see in the suede leather. Your crazy not to get your hands on this rig no matter what the pistol is. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

07-24-2011, 09:55 PM	#11
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,933 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Bob, has this model holster and manufacturer been faked before? No and that's not a fake holster. I suspect you might have left the better part of 2K on the table. If it makes you feel any better..because of the economy being the way it is..more like only $1500. Knowledge is Power that equals $$$. You have to know what your looking at... __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

07-23-2011, 05:50 PM	#3
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,603 Times in 933 Posts	Hi Bob, It sounds like an interesting gun! The top half could be genuine, 1906 Navies had small flange rear toggle pins. If you are mistaken about that l suffix, and it is in fact a cursive b, then the bottom half could be authentic as well. If not, then it's a total fabrication. If the holster is in decent shape, and the rod is genuine, then this rig could well be worth $1,600.00, even if the gun is fake. Regards, Norm P.S. Keep us posted!

07-23-2011, 06:37 PM	#4
nukem556 User Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Irmo, SC Posts: 625 Thanks: 35 Thanked 168 Times in 107 Posts	Thanks, guys.....the receiver and frame are flush at the front, so i think both are long variety. If I go back tomorrow I might take a cam and see if I can get some pics....whats a real Navy holster in fairly decent shape worth?

07-23-2011, 06:49 PM	#5
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,603 Times in 933 Posts	Hi Bob, A decent, genuine, Navy holster could be worth $750.00 to $1,500.00, depending, of course, on condition. Rods go as high as $1,000.00 at Simpsons. Be careful, there are lots of fakes out there. Regards, Norm

07-24-2011, 07:42 PM	#7
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,603 Times in 933 Posts	Hi Bob, Given the limitations of your photos, I don't see anything wrong with either the holster or the rod. Joh. Huber was a well known maker of Navy holsters, and, more often than not, they were not C/M marked. It looks like you have quite a find there. Best regards, Norm

07-24-2011, 08:12 PM	#9
nukem556 User Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Irmo, SC Posts: 625 Thanks: 35 Thanked 168 Times in 107 Posts	Thanks, Norm....I'm not much for holsters and accesories, my thinking was if I could get the whole rig for 1600 and sell the rod and holster, I could end up with the mixed Navy Luger nearly free.....yeah,I'm cheap that way

07-24-2011, 09:42 PM	#10
nukem556 User Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Irmo, SC Posts: 625 Thanks: 35 Thanked 168 Times in 107 Posts	sigh, well, knowing that I know very little and knowing from what I've read about Navy fakery, I wimped out and let it go....the show was closed before I got to read the responses from you guys....now it seems it may be worth tracking the guy down...also, like a dummy I didnt examine the takedown tool in the little pouch, it could be anything I suppose....has this model holster and manufacturer been faked before?

07-24-2011, 10:32 PM	#12
nukem556 User Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Irmo, SC Posts: 625 Thanks: 35 Thanked 168 Times in 107 Posts	agreed, Jerry...thats why I came to you guys! All may not be lost...I think I can get ahold of the guy.