1917 Erfurt

[Mark1]

My first Erfurt , collected yesterday . The seller is a well respected local identity in gun collecting and purchased this one
in the late 1960's from the NZ soldier who acquired it in France in 1918 . So that makes me only the 4th owner !
Came with a JM Eckart 1917 holster , tool and the 2 mags . All numbers are matching except the magazines .
These are certainly different to a DWM , so how did I do ?
The thing is the magazines , I thought all imperial mags were bright metal plated ? The blued mags I have seen are
WW2 with an alloy base . Both mags are full of grease and gunge , appear to me like they have never been apart , so I will
not be stripping or cleaning them at the moment . Would really appreciate some comments from the Forum experts .
Mark

[Edward Tinker]

Some collectors completly strip down their guns, to include magazines.

DON'T

Because it is easy to screw them up

Bluing started in the late 30's (unsure of the date), and are they reblued or plain tin that has either faded or been blued?


Ed

[Mark1]

Ed , As certain as I can tell ,
-tube shape is identical to tin plated 1917 DWM mag
-there is no sign of any plating under the blue in areas where it has rubbed thin
Can the normal tin plate fade to blue given the right conditions ?
I did raise the mags with the seller , who told me , these are the mags that came with the gun
when he bought it and he is sure they were blue then .
Mark

[Edward Tinker]

No, they would fade to a brownish, darker color.

Someone who knows ww1 mags and has access to some, plus some ww2 blued mags

But i would say they were blued at some point, rusting, needed refurbishment, etc. Although I am sure they were considered an expendable item, thus would have been replaced and not reblued, but who can say?

[DavidJayUden]

I acquired an old Artillery some time ago from its "3rd" owner with a similar finished mag. (The one that came with bullets stuck in the barrel...) The finish seemed orig. to the mag. and I thought that it was, but I will be interested in hearing more on the subject.
dju

[FNorm]

Nice looking pistol, dunno about the mags.

FN

[wlyon]

From what I can find out the blued mag bodies came out in 1936/37. All WW1 mag bodies were tinned sheet metal. Bill

[lugerholsterrepair]

Mark, A handsome old warhorse! I like the Erfurts..they are interestingly marked.

I am not intirely sure about WW1 wood bottom mags being blued. I would have to agree with Bill because I am just not sure. They have always been something I did not particularly have a fondness for and I strongly suspect they were never produced for WW 1 Pistols.

The early mags were nickle coated..my theory is that nickle is very slick and could have a twofold purpose, one to protect and the other as a lubricant of sorts for ease of insertion into the pistol.

The later mags were simply bare sheet steel.

Blued sheet steel rolled mags are not the norm for your pistol anyway. I would say bare steel would be more appropriate.

Could be you could just remove the bluing?

Jerry Burney

[drbuster]

Mark, the blued wooden bottom magazines are typical of post WW1 Weimar manufacture. They could have been acquired by the vet after the conflict, perhaps several years afterwards during occupation time. The numbers on the bottoms are indicative of Weimar military issue. Thye are nice magazines. If you wanted to be 100% "accurate", WW1 era mags are certainly obtainable, but Erfurt magazines are different than DWM mags (former have yellowish tinge and the wooden mag bottom has one or two C/letter acceptance marks on them).

[Mark1]

Guys , thanks so much for your comments , very interesting .
The guy who sold to me , took some notes when he bought the pistol and the veterans family still lives in the local area . So I am hopeful I can gather a little more history , like when and where in France he served and when he returned home etc .
On the magazines , some local fellows into lugers have pointed out , since yesterday...
-the "D" shaped staking punch at top of tube , is much smaller than WW2 era Mauser magazines .
-Walters' Luger Book , Pg 160 , shows a 1906 pattern Swiss mag with blued body and wood
base , Is this a possibility for the tubes at least ?
Mark

[lugercollector]

I have seen several original late WW1 Lugers that came with blued mag bodies with wooden bases....I am pretty sure that towards the end of WW1 some magazines were made that way...

[whcoyote]

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

Some collectors completly strip down their guns, to include magazines.

DON'T

Because it is easy to screw them up

Bluing started in the late 30's (unsure of the date), and are they reblued or plain tin that has either faded or been blued?


Ed

I don't like to be negative, but I'll be short about my observations:
1. These are not Erfurt mags and the staking doesn't particularly look like DWM
2. You cannot blue over a tin plating.
Bob