41-byf Luger variations

A.Mifsin · 09-14-2010, 07:04 AM

In The Mauser Parabellum 1930-1946 Analysis of a Million Lugers Pistols by Don R. Hallock & Joop Van de Kant, Page 244, there is a list of the 41-byf CVs ( collector variation ).

41-byf CV2 describes a 41-byf Luger with a SE-655 and a SE-135 acceptance marks and test proof TP-3.
41-byf CV3 describes a 41-byf Luger with a SE-135 and a SE-655 acceptance marks and test proof TP-3.

My question is why these two Lugers are considered two different variations just because the acceptance marks are opposite /different stamped on the Luger pistol? That is, the first 41-byf the SE-655 is the first on the left and the second 41-byf has the SE-655 second from the left.

Alf.

alanint · 09-14-2010, 09:35 AM

I suppose because it is a legitimate and permanent variation, just as it is described. There was a reason for the switch, although it may be unknown today. A new inspector? An order passed down from on high? A simple expedient?

That is what makes Luger collecting fascinating. It's the minute stuff.

Lugerdoc · 09-14-2010, 12:03 PM

The position of the WaAs, indicate different inspections. This would indicate to me that both inspectors were at Mauser for a period of time, rotating there inspection/acceptance duties. TH

guns3545 · 09-14-2010, 12:16 PM

This thread points out one of the things Joop and Don wanted to accomplish in their book.

Variations have been a topic of discussion for years. Probably always will be. What is a variation and how many are there?

Basically there are two types:

1. Variation driven by manufacturing or design changes. E.g, the changes to a blued magazine in 1936 and the change to all blued finish in 1937. Etc. Etc. These variations were really important to Mauser as they were building the guns and needed to make them more efficiently and effectively.

2. Variations derived from changes in processes or inspectors, the so called Collector Variations. E.g., processes in proofing and acceptance. Changes in inspectors, each of whom had their stamp, DE63, SE63, the appearance of inspector 83, sizes of number, SE655, SE135, etc.. Frankly, Mauser could not have cared less about them. They were not building collector pieces; they were building weapons of war. But they are important to serious collectors who want to know EVERYTHING there is to know about the "object of their desire".

Crazy thing Luger collecting isn't it??

John

A.Mifsin · 09-14-2010, 12:31 PM

"That is what makes Luger collecting fascinating. It's the minute stuff."

"Crazy thing Luger collecting isn't it?? "

Alanint. Luger Doc and gun 3545, thank you all, about the above quotes, I could not agree more.

Alf.

Frank · 09-14-2010, 03:45 PM

Hi guys, I have never seen an E/135 (rear WaA) combined with an E/655 (front WaA). That doesn't mean one doesn't exist!

It could also mean the WaA marks were reported in reverse, it's what I think anyway.

If someone has a picture of that arrangement, I would like to see it!!

whcoyote · 10-15-2010, 03:31 PM

Why is this variation of inspector's marks and their positions important in TR Lugers?
I collect Imperial Lugers and have never heard that variations in inspectors stamps or order of placement was cansidered a variation, much more affecting the value.
Why is it different for TR Lugers?
Bob

09-14-2010, 07:04 AM	#1
A.Mifsin User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Malta Posts: 570 Thanks: 74 Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts	41-byf Luger variations In The Mauser Parabellum 1930-1946 Analysis of a Million Lugers Pistols by Don R. Hallock & Joop Van de Kant, Page 244, there is a list of the 41-byf CVs ( collector variation ). 41-byf CV2 describes a 41-byf Luger with a SE-655 and a SE-135 acceptance marks and test proof TP-3. 41-byf CV3 describes a 41-byf Luger with a SE-135 and a SE-655 acceptance marks and test proof TP-3. My question is why these two Lugers are considered two different variations just because the acceptance marks are opposite /different stamped on the Luger pistol? That is, the first 41-byf the SE-655 is the first on the left and the second 41-byf has the SE-655 second from the left. Alf. __________________ I prefer a Luger

09-14-2010, 12:03 PM	#3
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	The position of the WaAs, indicate different inspections. This would indicate to me that both inspectors were at Mauser for a period of time, rotating there inspection/acceptance duties. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

09-14-2010, 12:31 PM	#5
A.Mifsin User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Malta Posts: 570 Thanks: 74 Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts	"That is what makes Luger collecting fascinating. It's the minute stuff." "Crazy thing Luger collecting isn't it?? " Alanint. Luger Doc and gun 3545, thank you all, about the above quotes, I could not agree more. Alf. __________________ I prefer a Luger

09-14-2010, 09:35 AM	#2
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	I suppose because it is a legitimate and permanent variation, just as it is described. There was a reason for the switch, although it may be unknown today. A new inspector? An order passed down from on high? A simple expedient? That is what makes Luger collecting fascinating. It's the minute stuff.

09-14-2010, 12:16 PM	#4
guns3545 Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 437 Thanks: 655 Thanked 492 Times in 218 Posts	This thread points out one of the things Joop and Don wanted to accomplish in their book. Variations have been a topic of discussion for years. Probably always will be. What is a variation and how many are there? Basically there are two types: 1. Variation driven by manufacturing or design changes. E.g, the changes to a blued magazine in 1936 and the change to all blued finish in 1937. Etc. Etc. These variations were really important to Mauser as they were building the guns and needed to make them more efficiently and effectively. 2. Variations derived from changes in processes or inspectors, the so called Collector Variations. E.g., processes in proofing and acceptance. Changes in inspectors, each of whom had their stamp, DE63, SE63, the appearance of inspector 83, sizes of number, SE655, SE135, etc.. Frankly, Mauser could not have cared less about them. They were not building collector pieces; they were building weapons of war. But they are important to serious collectors who want to know EVERYTHING there is to know about the "object of their desire". Crazy thing Luger collecting isn't it?? John

09-14-2010, 03:45 PM	#6
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 163 Times in 87 Posts	Hi guys, I have never seen an E/135 (rear WaA) combined with an E/655 (front WaA). That doesn't mean one doesn't exist! It could also mean the WaA marks were reported in reverse, it's what I think anyway. If someone has a picture of that arrangement, I would like to see it!!

10-15-2010, 03:31 PM	#7
whcoyote User Join Date: May 2008 Location: SW Virginia Posts: 75 Thanks: 0 Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts	Why is this variation of inspector's marks and their positions important in TR Lugers? I collect Imperial Lugers and have never heard that variations in inspectors stamps or order of placement was cansidered a variation, much more affecting the value. Why is it different for TR Lugers? Bob