New owner of 1913 P08

[Porta]

Hello - new member here with a recent purchase of a 1913 DWM P08. Complete with 2 mags, holster and loading tool.

Been absolutely fascinated with them since childhood and at long last have finally bought one.

It has a numbered part which isn't matching (take-down catch) and I'm looking for an excuse to enjoy shooting it as well as restrawing the relevant parts to improve aesthetic appeal.

May I have your opinions please? Before I start doing work on it?

Of course this will mean that one day I'll have to shell out again for a truly collectible piece..........oh dear - what a shame !!!

Cheers.

[DavidJayUden]

Looks awfully nice to make into a project gun. Why not look for a matching # part and shoot it during the search? That one part hurts it but does not kill the value. There are a lot of roaches out there that need face lifting worse.
Anyway, welcome!
dju

[klaus 3338]

It seems to be a nice early Luger. Did it have a hold open? Barrel is made of Böhler steel. Some 1913 Luger and a few 1914 have barrels of Böhler steel.
The holster seems to be one of the III. Reich.
Regards Klaus

[Vlim]

About Böhler:

This Austrian steel company (which still exists today) was a family owned business until the early 1900s. A group of German investors gained control of the company and opened a local branch in Germany.

Members of the board were some remarkable characters, like Isidor Loewe (owner of Loewe / DWM / Mauser / FN in those days) and Baron Paul von Gontard, general manager of DWM.

Although the Böhler family regained control after Loewe's death, it seems that Böhler remained at least one of the barrel steel deliverers for quite some time. In a 1945 CIOS report on Mauser one of the deliverers mentioned was Böhler.

[Porta]

Originally Posted by DavidJayUden

Looks awfully nice to make into a project gun. Why not look for a matching # part and shoot it during the search? That one part hurts it but does not kill the value. There are a lot of roaches out there that need face lifting worse.
Anyway, welcome!
dju

Thank you, I will start looking for a matching #part then. Pretty much assumed it was a lost cause to do so......

Originally Posted by klaus 3338

It seems to be a nice early Luger. Did it have a hold open? Barrel is made of Böhler steel. Some 1913 Luger and a few 1914 have barrels of Böhler steel.
The holster seems to be one of the III. Reich.
Regards Klaus

Sorry, but whats a "hold-open"?
Is Bohler steel superior in some way?
Cheers.

[Norme]

Hi Matt, A hold-open is a device which holds the breech block back after the last shot has been fired. It was omitted from early military Lugers (to save money), but many guns were later retrofitted with it. Bohler steel is not superior, it's just different and rather uncommon. Regards, Norm

[Porta]

Originally Posted by Norme

Hi Matt, A hold-open is a device which holds the breech block back after the last shot has been fired. It was omitted from early military Lugers (to save money), but many guns were later retrofitted with it. Bohler steel is not superior, it's just different and rather uncommon. Regards, Norm

Norm,
Well, I haven't fired it yet. Only had it a few days now (during which time its been stripped apart twice, cleaned, polished and generally subjected to close examination and near-religious awe )

To your point about a hold-open device:

I'm sure this is a rookie statement, but have noticed that the toggle will remain open when an empty mag is in place and the action is worked. Removing the mag at this point will allow me to pull back slightly on the toggle and it will then release forward to seat home.

Oh, one other observation:
With an empty mag in place, you may move the toggle back about (ummm) 30deg and it clicks and stays. With a slight push down, it seats home into the breech with a rather nice slap/clunk. I assume this is to allow the firer to attempt a "refire" on a dud round??

Many thanks to all replies - your knowledge is recognised and appreciated.

[Ron Wood]

The fact that the toggle stays open on an empty magazine indicates that your gun does indeed have a holdopen. The serial number of your gun is low enough that it would have been manufactured without a holdopen, and one was retrofitted at a later date. You should be able to see evidence of this retrofit on the right side of the gun just below the frame rail and slightly to the rear of the trigger. You should see the head of a small pin and a very small inspector's stamp next to it.

When you open the toggle that slight amount you have moved the breechblock back far enough for the sear to engage the firing pin. That was not a design feature to allow an attempt to refire a dud, it is just the normal function of the action. It is best not to store the gun with the firing pin set, but don't pull the trigger to "snap" the firing pin. On these old guns that could lead to a broken firing pin. Either use a "snap cap" dummy round to unset the firing pin or when you have opened the toggle as you have described, hold on to the toggle knobs, pull the trigger and lower the toggle manually.

Your gun is in very nice condition and, in spite of the mismatched takedown, it is quite collectable. Do not do any refinish or restraw as this will further diminish the value. It may take a while to find a matching takedown, but that is one of the easier parts to find.

Good luck and thank you for sharing photos of your fine Luger.

[Porta]

Originally Posted by Ron Wood

The fact that the toggle stays open on an empty magazine indicates that your gun does indeed have a holdopen. The serial number of your gun is low enough that it would have been manufactured without a holdopen, and one was retrofitted at a later date. You should be able to see evidence of this retrofit on the right side of the gun just below the frame rail and slightly to the rear of the trigger. You should see the head of a small pin and a very small inspector's stamp next to it.

When you open the toggle that slight amount you have moved the breechblock back far enough for the sear to engage the firing pin. That was not a design feature to allow an attempt to refire a dud, it is just the normal function of the action. It is best not to store the gun with the firing pin set, but don't pull the trigger to "snap" the firing pin. On these old guns that could lead to a broken firing pin. Either use a "snap cap" dummy round to unset the firing pin or when you have opened the toggle as you have described, hold on to the toggle knobs, pull the trigger and lower the toggle manually.

Your gun is in very nice condition and, in spite of the mismatched takedown, it is quite collectable. Do not do any refinish or restraw as this will further diminish the value. It may take a while to find a matching takedown, but that is one of the easier parts to find.

Good luck and thank you for sharing photos of your fine Luger.

Ah-ha!

Thanks muchly.

Regards,
Matt

[wlyon]

Matt
Totally agree with the above. You have a nice collectible luger and it should be left as it is. The Bo steel usually has a hardness number following the Bo. Not sure I have seen one without the number? I learn something every day. Nice luger and welcome to the Forum. Realize that you are now addicted to lugeritis. It is not painful just expensive. Bill

[Porta]

Originally Posted by wlyon

Matt
Totally agree with the above. You have a nice collectible luger and it should be left as it is.............that you are now addicted to lugeritis. It is not painful just expensive. Bill

Hello again,

I shot the luger today and she's quite happy with 115gr FMJ. No stovepiping at all and what I have read so far seems quite true; there is an inherent accuracy in the design and ease in firing.

Have been doing a fair bit of research into what she is and from whence she came. The trouble I have run into is that though there seem a lot of 1914 lugers about, the 1913 is less common (must be due to fact that their business got much better the next year )

Anyhoo - here are a few images I've taken (and cleaned up) to help with seeing the features. I've set some as negative to try to make clearer also.
They were taken both with & without the gun assembled.

Care to examine and share your opinions on some of the markings?

Many thanks.

Matt

[Porta]

Here's some more of the mag and holster. Both 3rd Reich, I understand.

The scratch marks on the outside of the holster were advertised on the sale as being the GI who brought it back to the US. "HEDGES"

If true - it adds more historical value as far as I'm concerned.
Sort of closes the book on the history of the gun......

Cheers,

Matt

[Norme]

Hi Matt, 1913 is a very interesting year for Erfurt Luger collectors. Some came with no hold-open, some with hold-open added (evident on the right side of the gun by an unfinished pin head and a tiny inspection mark - see photo), and some with it originally installed. The early 1913s came with no stock lug (like yours), later ones came with it. A very few came with Boehler steel barrels (again like yours), and most came with inspection marks on the grip screws (second photo). Enjoy your 1913 Erfurt, there are few Lugers that are more interesting. Regards, Norm

[Porta]

Thanks much Norm,

Nice to own something special - I was just hoping for a real Luger after many years of admiring them (I'm from the UK orig, so not much chance of getting one over there).

Its not actually an Erfurt, the toggle action reads DWM (I think I understand that they are different.....)

Does what you say also apply to a DWM, then?

Cheers,
Matt

PS, Ok, I just sussed what a "stock lug" is.
hehehe

[Norme]

Hi Matt, I'm sorry about the maker mistake, one to many Margaritas, I guess. Everything I wrote applies to DWM as well, except the part about the inspected grip screws. I, too, am from the U.K. but I probably came to the US before you were born, in 1960. Regards, Norm

[Porta]

Originally Posted by Norme

Hi Matt, I'm sorry about the maker mistake, one to many Margaritas, I guess. Everything I wrote applies to DWM as well, except the part about the inspected grip screws. I, too, am from the U.K. but I probably came to the US before you were born, in 1960. Regards, Norm

Yeah, 7yrs before I showed up in the black country ......

Norm

Matt