Your Preferred C96 Loading Style

[calibrator]

Hello Broomhandle shooters. I would have posted this on the 1896 Mauser forum owned by "Nemo", but it is now completely over-run with Porno-spammers and there seems to be NO administrator to fix it. Too bad as this is a great site for vast Broomhandle knowlege. I see alot of the posters there also post here and they probably feel the same as I.... ??? ANYWAY, I just recieved a nice M-30 in 7.63 cal and am having some trouble "smoothly" loading it via the stripper clip. All the instructions I've found state just locking the bolt back on the follower, inserting the loaded clip and squeeze the rounds into the mag well. I find this approach to be impossible. I'm a big guy 6ft 210lbs have VERY large hands and train with weights 5 days a week so strength or dexterity is not an issue. This piece is in excellent condition, #s matching, well cleaned and oiled, mag follower and spring fit well and move freely. My first thought was the bolt resting on the follower was almost locking the follower in place. Therefor I tried pulling the bolt back, off the follower while pushing the rounds in, can do it but not gracefully or safely. Once the first round enters the mag well the others follow nicely. I get the best results by loading and pushing just 3 rounds to get the 1st in and the bolt freed from the follower. Unless I'm doing something wrong or there IS a mechanical issue, I can't see why anyone, anywhere would use this weapon for the 1st half of the 20th century ( as they surely did ) as a combat weapon. Please share your loading experience or thoughts about mechanical issues here ( I don't want to modify any parts until some need to comes to light ). Best Regards!! Joe

[alvin]

Please note that inserted clip does NOT push down the magazine follower on Broom and it does not even touch the magazine follower. The follower is pushed down when you press the ammo in. There are two senarios that I can think of, not neccessarily match your Broom, but here they are: (1) The gun was pretty new and you have to use it a lot to "break in"; Or (2) the recoil spring was replaced and the bolt pushes the magazine follower too hard.

Reloading this type of gun took lots of practice. According to the memoirs that I read, historically there were guys paying high price, including their life, when they could not reload it quickly at critical moments. It's inappropriate to be used as a self-defense gun nowadays.

[alvin]

Captured a few scenes from a movie on loading a single round into the gun. Collecting this thing needs a little bit fun.... otherwise, searching, comparing, bargain, etc, too much hard work.

[calibrator]

Thanks Alvin! I never really considered that the recoil spring could have too much tension. I've been practicing some since and find that very minor changes in technique ( where you push on the top round, near the base is best, but you risk loosing some skin on the stripper ) influence loading greatly. Have not shot this yet, but will soon with some PRVI Partizan ammo I just recieved. I don't have a stock for it yet ( got any SWEET deals on a NICE original M-30 style ?? ) but feel that with a stock attached it would be a much nicer experience. Thanks also for the screen grabs, they were SO appropriate. Best Regards!! Joe P.S. Will you ever go back to Nemo's site now that the Porno-spammers have posted in EVERY category mulitple times???

[alvin]

The old movie paid some attention to details. As you can see, his left hand pushed the barrel back in pix #6, this step unlocked the bolt, so he could use his right thumb to push back the bolt in pix #7. Without previous step, it's impossible to open the bolt with single thumb. The right thumb controls the bolt position -- not too far so it would not be locked by the follower, but opened big enough so the cartridge could be inserted. From pix #4 to #8, it took him 2 seconds. With practice, this can be repeated so 10 rounds could be loaded into the magazine without clip. Try it. Not easy at the beginning. I have also seen people could rotate this gun on finger like cowboy rotating a revolver. I could not do it no matter how many times I tried

====

If you do try it, use snap caps. Don't play with live ammo.

[calibrator]

Thanks again! More valuable insight. Can't hardly wait to practice this new technique. With your knowlege base, I'm sure you've heard of a restorer named "Mauser Mike ", do you have any insight regarding dealing with him? I have my eye on 2 more C-96s to complete my German pistol collection (At least for a while) and one of them was restored by him. Once Again; BEST REGARDS!! Joe

[alvin]

Restored gun right? My guess was right. He did pretty well, but 1930 was supposed to be a polished gun but he brushed it like a prewar -- a minor mistake, it's well done. I don't know "Mauser Mike" though.....

[barr44]

Calibrator,
You might want to try the C96 Forum:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/C96_Forum/

They are a great group of guys there, just like they are on this forum.

Loading the C-96 can be a bit troublesome. You just have to work with it. You want to be sure that you have the right stripper clip as well. There are several that will work, but the original Mauser ones seem to work best.
Another thing that you should be aware of is the right rear portion of the barrel extension. The area directly behind the bolt stop. If there is any distortion in the back portion of this area, then you might want to not fire the gun. The very back edge should be straight and vertical with no bowing backwards. This can be a weak area in these older guns especially since the steel tends to change over the years. I've seen several that have fatigued in this area and eventually will let loose and the shooter can end up with the bolt striking them in the head. Not a pleasant thought.
The guns are fun to shoot, and definitely get some attention at the range, but one needs to be safe.
Practice with your loading and you will eventually get the hang of it.
barr

[calibrator]

Thanks barr, your input is well taken. The area on the right side of the extension as well as the bolt stop itself show no signs of deformity, fractures or repair. Also Thanks for the C-96 forum tip. Nemo's site had a lot of good tech articles that I am printing for my files. That ship has sunk, and is NOT safe to visit if you value your or your computers safety! Best Regards!! Joe

[worldoftone]

I went to the range this week with my wartime commercial and FORGOT my stripper clips. Ah, that was great fun

- WOT

[sheepherder]

Wasn't there a tool that held the bolt open so you could insert cartridges by hand??? I thought I saw one somewhere...

I use the stripper clip, and usually cut something...

[calibrator]

I remember seeing something on Nemo's site in the menu on the home page. It showed a piece that he made out of Delrin that had the shape of the clip on one end and a larger tab on the other to easily pull it out. Thanks for reminding me to make one of those. Joe

[worldoftone]

I've been lucky not to cut myself . . . yet. That tool sounds like something that would be nice to have. I probably would have forgotten that as well.

- WOT

[Imperial Arms]

After the bolt has been opened, try pulling it back a few extra millimeters and then pull the trigger - this will lock the hammer into the underside of the bolt and then you can also load the magazine one round at a time without a loading clip or with a loading clip. After the magazine is full, pull down on the hammer and the bolt will go forward loading the first round from the magazine.

Enjoy,
Albert

[alvin]

Mauser made ~1 million semi-auto C96, only first 20 thousands had this feature (hammer releasable while bolt is open!). So, 2%. It won't work on small ring, the trigger is disconnected from the sear when the bolt is more than 1m/m away from the breech. Thanks to the "rocker plunger".

But if it's an very early gun, CH, transitional LRH (those two were classified by ATF as pre-1899 antique, no FFL required for transferring), and Italian Navy delivered in 1899. That's about it.

More pratical way is cut a notch on bolt bulge. But that messes up the gun. Find a replacement bolt and rework it.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Imperial Arms

After the bolt has been opened, try pulling it back a few extra millimeters and then pull the trigger - this will lock the hammer into the underside of the bolt...

I just tried this with my M30 and C96 and it did not work with either one...The hammer will not fall with the bolt open...

Edit: alvin was too quick for me...

[worldoftone]

HEH HEH, Good info to know though

- WOT

[MikeP]

I made a hold open tool from a piece of wood.
Fits between the grasping knobs and frame.

Works for me.

I used to do all kinds of trick holding and manipulating and figured that was a good way to have an AD.

I never had much luck with the strippers.

[alvin]

I just returned a C96 back to the seller. Besides a more serious issue, it also has a relative minor one -- its darn springs were all replaced in the past. Recoil spring, firing pin spring, main spring were all aftermarket, and the gun is in relatively good shape in general.

There is an well known advice on the Internet saying "you should replace spring before shooting this thing". I don't disagree, but what missing is "you'd better put the right one back after shooting". Otherwise, you could lost those tiny springs easily. Or, your heir may not even know you've replaced spring in the past, or he/she could not find them. Same is true for bolt stop, etc.

Firing lose and non-firing lose makes no difference in the end result.

Of course, if many things are wrong on the gun, that issue is minor. But if many things were incorrect anyway, why bother spending $$ to replace springs....

[worldoftone]

I keep my strippers stored with a fine coat of CLP on them. Whether this helps or not, I don't know. But, I don't have any loading issues.

- WOT