Broomhandle disaster.... - Page 2

Sam Steele · 08-13-2009, 02:02 AM

Howdy Alvin,

The first 2000 stocks had the serial number on the hinge plate. They also have (as mine does) the welded loop attached. I thought that that was for military leather rigs, but see that it's a Conehammer feature, too. On my stock,the serial number is on the tang of the stock end that attaches to the grip. No markings on the wood.

Pics to come.

alvin · 08-13-2009, 07:03 AM

It's not regarding the s/n location. "Something" is more subtle than that. Waiting with patience.

Sam Steele · 08-13-2009, 08:06 PM

Sorry Alvin.....I have some pics for you, but I can't upload them. I've always had trouble doing this (plus midnight shift is kicking my a**).

On top of that, I stripped, cleaned, and reassembled my Conehammer, and.................

Same old problem.

The bolt won't draw back, and the hammer won't fall easily. There's also a "clicking" noise from the trigger group.

I'm hoping that it's not that rocker coupler......I guess that I really have to strip the lock completely, so see if something is jammed or (??) something has broken............

I'm away after work tomorrow, and won't be back until Monday. That'll give me time to think about the problem.

Alvin, if you want to send me a private message, I'll e-mail you the pics.

Cheers,

Bill

Bill

alvin · 08-13-2009, 09:19 PM

Bill,

You can send pix via email: alvin8341@yahoo.com

Let's review the issues:

(1) The bolt does not draw back easily.

If the upper receiver is not mounted, I would assume the bolt can be draw back easily (?) Since I don't know your experience with C96. Let's do a small experiment if you have not done it yet:

In assembled mode, hammer cocked, one hand hold the gun and push the muzzle against a solid surface, such as table top. The barrel should go back around quater an inch, and the bolt is unlocked in this mode. Another hand pull the bolt open -- it should be very easy to open the bolt in this mode, because it's unlocked.

If the barrel cannot be pushed back, or the bolt cannot be easily opened when the barrel is in its back position..... probably the bolt lock has some issue. Otherwise, I did not see any problem -- C96's bolt locking machenism is not smooth at all. As long as barrel can be pushed back, and bolt can be easily opened when the barrel is in its back position, I did not see any problem.

To be continued..... hold on

alvin · 08-13-2009, 09:40 PM

Back. Sorry, too many little things have to be handled all the time.

(2) The noise when you pull the trigger..... hammer not cocked....

On later guns, like small ring, you push the trigger when hammer is not cocked, you won't hear anything, and you can feel the resistence from sear spring being consistent. Not the case on the CH though. CH's disconnecting was implemented via a notch on the trigger top, when you pull the trigger, initially, it's smooth, all of a sudden, "click", the disconnector slips off from the trigger. If that's the case, that's normal. Please blame Feederle brothers for this design. This type of disconnecting is obviously unreliable, but that's the way they did it.

If you hear other type of noise other than a single "click".... Lord, I have to hold this gun in hand to figure out why....

(3) Hammer does not drop easily

Many collectors know "dry firing" is not good for the firing pin, so they hold the hammer by hand, pull the trigger, and slowly put down the hammer in controlled way. Is that the way you tried?

That way does not work well on CH. The problem also come from its unique disconnecting mechanism. You hold the hammer and pull the trigger, it is hard for you to control not pull too much. If the trigger is pulled too much, it disconnects from the sear, and sear returns to its locking position. It's not very easy to release hammer this way.

If that's the way you tried, then try this: put a soft pad between the hammer and the firing pin, and pull the trigger. The hammer should be released easily.

As you can see, I made lots of assumptions. Without knowing exactly what you did ... that's the only way .... guesstimation of what's going on. Hopefully, my typing was not totally useless on this one. No? Yes?

Sam Steele · 08-14-2009, 04:31 AM

Thanks Alvin,

I'll try your reccommendations when I get home.....I'll e-mail you the pics.

The upper receiver/barrel does go back a bit, so I'll see what happens. When I drop forward the hammer, I never do it on an empty chamber ; it was against my thumb(ouch). I also bough A-ZOOM snap caps for 7.63mm, but haven't tried them out yet.

Good old Conehammer with its idiosyncracies.....a rare and weird bird, indeed.

Bye the bye...Did you ever remove the rocker coupling from your CH?

Cheers,

Bill

alvin · 08-14-2009, 06:37 AM

Stripped via the awkward way that I mentioned earlier -- hammer down and push out the sear spring/hammer pivot. I did not have any special tool.

How could the bolt refuse to unlock ...... disassemble the gun, take out the lock work, hook the bolt lock on top of the lock work, and push down / release the bolt lock a few times, the rear end of bolt lock should fall into the large notch on top of the lock work when you push it hard, and returns to it's up position when you release it. If it does not work, it's easier to view what's going on in this mode, because everything is open for viewing in this mode. Hope it helps. In assembled mode, it's almost MI (mission impossible, from movie

) to figure out why.

I have never seen a bolt lock that cannot be pushed down in this mode. I did see two of them cannot jump back when I release it. One has MM bolt lock and another one has forced match bolt lock.

Similar way can help ID triggering/sear problem. Disassemble the gun, put lock work back into the grip frame without the barrel/bolt lock. Now the sear movement is viewable when you pull and release the trigger.

Sam Steele · 08-14-2009, 09:43 AM

Hi Alvin,

I wondered how difficult it would have been to re-insert the sear spring shaft back through the hammer, with the mainspring plunger being so powerful. I'll consider your attack on the subject, but for the moment, I am enjoying the "unique" mechanics of a Conehammer!

I did as you suggested, putting pressure on the muzzle to draw back slightly on the upper frame. Sure enough, the bolt slid smoothly back. I didn't load yet with the snap caps to chamber one for dry firing - I just wanted to see her with the bolt open. I dropped the hammer on my thumb (I'm kinda enjoying the pain, now), but notice a trigger pull similar to an old .45. And yes...the click-click of the trigger group is absent without the lock in place. Such beautiful fire blue on the serial-numbered floorplate catch! All in all, a piece of exquisite workmanship. We'll never see the likes of this again.

I'll send you the pics via e-mail in a few minutes.

Hey....any more Conehammer owners out there with stories to tell of their beauties?

Cheers,

Bill

Sam Steele · 08-14-2009, 10:32 AM

One last thing before bedtime (at 10:30am!)....

My pistol has the "WESTLEY RICHARDS LTD. LONDON" on the port side (left) of the frame. I was looking for "WR" markings on the stock (some supposedly had them), but not on mine. My mahogany case DOES have a beautiful, weathered WESTLEY RICHARDS trade label, but alas, it is not contemporary. Looks great, though!

Good night/morning.

Bill

alvin · 08-15-2009, 03:47 PM

Never mind. It's a big country. Localized.

Sam Steele · 08-16-2009, 03:37 PM

Alvin....did you get my pics?

Your photo below your signature when you write......THAT is one of the markings on the right side of the frame where it joins the barrel. Can you tell me what it signifies?

Cheers,

Bill

alvin · 08-16-2009, 08:00 PM

Bill, thanks a lot for the pictures. The stock looks correct and is one of the best CH stocks that I've seen. Rig like this is seldomly offered for sale on the market these days.... well, at least on the US gun market. The antler on the right side of the chamber is "Oberndorf Proof House" stamp.

=====

The "problem" with Mauser -- way fewer nice ones available. Sure, fewer people collecting these, demand and supply still balance. The small volume is very annoying though. Tons of guns imported in 1980s floating on the market, but it's not easy to find a nice one.

08-13-2009, 02:02 AM	#21
Sam Steele User Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: CANADA Posts: 38 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Howdy Alvin, The first 2000 stocks had the serial number on the hinge plate. They also have (as mine does) the welded loop attached. I thought that that was for military leather rigs, but see that it's a Conehammer feature, too. On my stock,the serial number is on the tang of the stock end that attaches to the grip. No markings on the wood. Pics to come. __________________ "Be not afraid of any man, no matter what his size. When trouble threatens call on me, and I will equalise."

08-13-2009, 08:06 PM	#23
Sam Steele User Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: CANADA Posts: 38 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Sorry Alvin.....I have some pics for you, but I can't upload them. I've always had trouble doing this (plus midnight shift is kicking my a**). On top of that, I stripped, cleaned, and reassembled my Conehammer, and................. Same old problem. The bolt won't draw back, and the hammer won't fall easily. There's also a "clicking" noise from the trigger group. I'm hoping that it's not that rocker coupler......I guess that I really have to strip the lock completely, so see if something is jammed or (??) something has broken............ I'm away after work tomorrow, and won't be back until Monday. That'll give me time to think about the problem. Alvin, if you want to send me a private message, I'll e-mail you the pics. Cheers, Bill Bill __________________ "Be not afraid of any man, no matter what his size. When trouble threatens call on me, and I will equalise."

08-14-2009, 04:31 AM	#26
Sam Steele User Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: CANADA Posts: 38 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Thanks Alvin, I'll try your reccommendations when I get home.....I'll e-mail you the pics. The upper receiver/barrel does go back a bit, so I'll see what happens. When I drop forward the hammer, I never do it on an empty chamber ; it was against my thumb(ouch). I also bough A-ZOOM snap caps for 7.63mm, but haven't tried them out yet. Good old Conehammer with its idiosyncracies.....a rare and weird bird, indeed. Bye the bye...Did you ever remove the rocker coupling from your CH? Cheers, Bill __________________ "Be not afraid of any man, no matter what his size. When trouble threatens call on me, and I will equalise."

08-14-2009, 09:43 AM	#28
Sam Steele User Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: CANADA Posts: 38 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Quirky Conehammers..... Hi Alvin, I wondered how difficult it would have been to re-insert the sear spring shaft back through the hammer, with the mainspring plunger being so powerful. I'll consider your attack on the subject, but for the moment, I am enjoying the "unique" mechanics of a Conehammer! I did as you suggested, putting pressure on the muzzle to draw back slightly on the upper frame. Sure enough, the bolt slid smoothly back. I didn't load yet with the snap caps to chamber one for dry firing - I just wanted to see her with the bolt open. I dropped the hammer on my thumb (I'm kinda enjoying the pain, now), but notice a trigger pull similar to an old .45. And yes...the click-click of the trigger group is absent without the lock in place. Such beautiful fire blue on the serial-numbered floorplate catch! All in all, a piece of exquisite workmanship. We'll never see the likes of this again. I'll send you the pics via e-mail in a few minutes. Hey....any more Conehammer owners out there with stories to tell of their beauties? Cheers, Bill __________________ "Be not afraid of any man, no matter what his size. When trouble threatens call on me, and I will equalise."

08-14-2009, 10:32 AM	#29
Sam Steele User Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: CANADA Posts: 38 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Westley Richards.... One last thing before bedtime (at 10:30am!).... My pistol has the "WESTLEY RICHARDS LTD. LONDON" on the port side (left) of the frame. I was looking for "WR" markings on the stock (some supposedly had them), but not on mine. My mahogany case DOES have a beautiful, weathered WESTLEY RICHARDS trade label, but alas, it is not contemporary. Looks great, though! Good night/morning. Bill __________________ "Be not afraid of any man, no matter what his size. When trouble threatens call on me, and I will equalise."

08-13-2009, 07:03 AM	#22
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	It's not regarding the s/n location. "Something" is more subtle than that. Waiting with patience.

08-13-2009, 09:19 PM	#24
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Bill, You can send pix via email: alvin8341@yahoo.com Let's review the issues: (1) The bolt does not draw back easily. If the upper receiver is not mounted, I would assume the bolt can be draw back easily (?) Since I don't know your experience with C96. Let's do a small experiment if you have not done it yet: In assembled mode, hammer cocked, one hand hold the gun and push the muzzle against a solid surface, such as table top. The barrel should go back around quater an inch, and the bolt is unlocked in this mode. Another hand pull the bolt open -- it should be very easy to open the bolt in this mode, because it's unlocked. If the barrel cannot be pushed back, or the bolt cannot be easily opened when the barrel is in its back position..... probably the bolt lock has some issue. Otherwise, I did not see any problem -- C96's bolt locking machenism is not smooth at all. As long as barrel can be pushed back, and bolt can be easily opened when the barrel is in its back position, I did not see any problem. To be continued..... hold on

08-13-2009, 09:40 PM	#25
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Back. Sorry, too many little things have to be handled all the time. (2) The noise when you pull the trigger..... hammer not cocked.... On later guns, like small ring, you push the trigger when hammer is not cocked, you won't hear anything, and you can feel the resistence from sear spring being consistent. Not the case on the CH though. CH's disconnecting was implemented via a notch on the trigger top, when you pull the trigger, initially, it's smooth, all of a sudden, "click", the disconnector slips off from the trigger. If that's the case, that's normal. Please blame Feederle brothers for this design. This type of disconnecting is obviously unreliable, but that's the way they did it. If you hear other type of noise other than a single "click".... Lord, I have to hold this gun in hand to figure out why.... (3) Hammer does not drop easily Many collectors know "dry firing" is not good for the firing pin, so they hold the hammer by hand, pull the trigger, and slowly put down the hammer in controlled way. Is that the way you tried? That way does not work well on CH. The problem also come from its unique disconnecting mechanism. You hold the hammer and pull the trigger, it is hard for you to control not pull too much. If the trigger is pulled too much, it disconnects from the sear, and sear returns to its locking position. It's not very easy to release hammer this way. If that's the way you tried, then try this: put a soft pad between the hammer and the firing pin, and pull the trigger. The hammer should be released easily. As you can see, I made lots of assumptions. Without knowing exactly what you did ... that's the only way .... guesstimation of what's going on. Hopefully, my typing was not totally useless on this one. No? Yes?

08-14-2009, 06:37 AM	#27
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Stripped via the awkward way that I mentioned earlier -- hammer down and push out the sear spring/hammer pivot. I did not have any special tool. How could the bolt refuse to unlock ...... disassemble the gun, take out the lock work, hook the bolt lock on top of the lock work, and push down / release the bolt lock a few times, the rear end of bolt lock should fall into the large notch on top of the lock work when you push it hard, and returns to it's up position when you release it. If it does not work, it's easier to view what's going on in this mode, because everything is open for viewing in this mode. Hope it helps. In assembled mode, it's almost MI (mission impossible, from movie ) to figure out why. I have never seen a bolt lock that cannot be pushed down in this mode. I did see two of them cannot jump back when I release it. One has MM bolt lock and another one has forced match bolt lock. Similar way can help ID triggering/sear problem. Disassemble the gun, put lock work back into the grip frame without the barrel/bolt lock. Now the sear movement is viewable when you pull and release the trigger.

08-15-2009, 03:47 PM	#30
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Never mind. It's a big country. Localized.

08-16-2009, 03:37 PM	#31
Sam Steele User Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: CANADA Posts: 38 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Alvin....did you get my pics? Your photo below your signature when you write......THAT is one of the markings on the right side of the frame where it joins the barrel. Can you tell me what it signifies? Cheers, Bill __________________ "Be not afraid of any man, no matter what his size. When trouble threatens call on me, and I will equalise."

08-16-2009, 08:00 PM	#32
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Bill, thanks a lot for the pictures. The stock looks correct and is one of the best CH stocks that I've seen. Rig like this is seldomly offered for sale on the market these days.... well, at least on the US gun market. The antler on the right side of the chamber is "Oberndorf Proof House" stamp. ===== The "problem" with Mauser -- way fewer nice ones available. Sure, fewer people collecting these, demand and supply still balance. The small volume is very annoying though. Tons of guns imported in 1980s floating on the market, but it's not easy to find a nice one. Last edited by alvin; 08-16-2009 at 08:48 PM.