Excellent Luger Bullet

[PhilOhio]

I hope this is a little help to some of you other Luger reloaders.

For years I've lamented the fact that I couldn't find a lead bullet mold which would come close to matching the standard German shape used up through WW-II. A number of my 9mm cast bullets will "work", but nothing is quite as good as the original style (after they changed from the earliest truncated cone).

And of the ones which "work", none let you seat the lubrication groove(s) below the case mouth while also letting you seat the bullet out to maximum overall length, for reliable feeding.

I'm always mold hunting, as this overall length problem affects a number of my other 9mm firearms, also.

Perfect Mold - A couple of weeks ago I hit it. I don't know for how long it has been on the market, because I did not see it before, but Lee is making the absolute perfect 9mm Luger bullet mold. It is their stock #356-125-2R. That's a 125 grain bullet with a 2 bore diameter ogive.

It's really the cat's pajamas. You can seat the bullet out to the maximum 1.169" OAL if you want. I'm using 1.165". The single lube groove will be completely covered.

As with the original jacketed bullet, about 1/8" of the bore diameter of the lead will be exposed, and this almost touches the lands of the rifling. Of course, the lands were relieved during chamber reaming at the factory, to barely clear this part of the jacketed bullet, also. This is how it should be for best accuracy.

So using this mold, you can set your Luger ammo up to come as close to factory specs as possible, while using a lead bullet to reduce bore wear to almost nothing. The ammo just looks "right". And it really fits into the magazine perfectly.

Powder - Over the last couple months, I've experimented with a number of the common old standby pistol powders and lots of bullet styles; I have a few molds and reload for around 30 cartridges. But I'm really liking Winchester 231. It's close to Bullseye, but doesn't jam up old style cylinder powder measures. And it seems to be a favorite with some shooters of high-end centerfire, rapid fire match pistols in calibers like .32 S&W Long.

Load - I think I've got the combination. This new bullet feeds flawlessly with any powder, as long as there is enough recoil impulse to operate the action and as long as your magazine is correct. But this Lee bullet and 3.5 grains of W231 gives flawless functioning, good accuracy, and the impulse feels just right. It is easy on cases, and they fall right behind you.

.2 grains lighter and you will begin to get short cycles. .3 grains heavier on the charge, and you will begin to get a few reversed stovepipes and somewhat heavier recoil. 3.5 gr. of W231 is just right, and should be so for any Luger with the standard weight recoil spring for 9mm.

Even through a heavily pitted bore (about to be replaced), groups were 3" at 50'. Through a decent barrel, accuracy should be much better.

So if you are tired of ammo that is "almost" right, but not exactly right, you might try this Lee mold. It's aluminum, which is not my favorite mold metal, but it's $25.98 + shipping. That includes handles. If you don't like it, pitch it. But you'll like it. It casts a .357" bullet. That's an easy lube/size to .356". You could tumble lube them in Lee's Alox lube #90177 and shoot "as is", without sizing, in all your .38s or Lugers.

So I thought some of you might like to try this inexpensive ammo problem solving route. Now I've got thousands of rounds of loaded 9mm ammo...on which I wish had this bullet, but don't.

Oh yes, Lee's got a nice website where you can browse all this stuff, or order directly. http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/cata.../bullmol2.html
The #90309 double-cavity mold is part way down the page.

Have fun.

[Ingvarg]

Thank you.

Since my Luger is really picky on ammo and I have been looking after the "right" mold this post will be very helpfull, since I have to order the molds from the states.
I have done some successfull reloading for it but with factory bullets, but those are expencive and hard to get here so casting will be the way to go.
I have used Lee aluminium molds to cast for my 38 and found them easy to use and the price is also great.

Thanks again
Ingvar

[rottenII]

Great post and info. I also have had very good luck with W231 in all my 9mm. Ive been using Berry bullets but one of these days will get around to a little "home brewing"!

[Ice]

Excellent post. Thanks!

Charlie

[FNorm]

Lee makes excellent stuff. After years of fussing with an other powder measures, I tried a Lee. No more jams and crunches with long grain rifle powders. Cheap, or at least reasonable too.

FN

[Ingvarg]

Originally Posted by FNorm

Lee makes excellent stuff. After years of fussing with an other powder measures, I tried a Lee. No more jams and crunches with long grain rifle powders. Cheap, or at least reasonable too.

FN

Second that. And excellent price to. I use Lee for all my rifle reloading but reasently got a Dillon 450 for the handgun ammo.


btw. Beutifull Dobie you got in your avatar. I´m owned by one to.

[FNorm]

TY: That's Jack. Renejade /BJF 'Without Remorse' WAC, CD. 12 in November and still a puppy

[PhilOhio]

I'm glad you folks sound receptive to trying this mold. I'm sure you will love the bullet. Few major improvements are so easy and inexpensive. Sieger can tell you why overall length is so important to reliable functioning, and this is the best way to get it.

But I'd add a note of caution (below) on use of Lee aluminum molds. For years, all I used were iron molds from Lyman and RCBS. They are more forgiving of your casting technique. Now these are either too expensive for me or completely unavailable in the types I want; I just had to scour the entire U.S. to locate a new-old-stock Lyman mold for a 50-grain .25 ACP bullet. So my only choice here, 9mm, was aluminum.

During casting, you do have to pay closer attention to how you close the mold halves. Be sure the tops are aligned to show a flat surface and only a hairline joint. With the Lee molds, if you don't watch this, it is possible to get a lot of bad bullets, most evident from misaligned bullet bases and problems cutting off the sprue. That translates to inaccuracy and other difficulties. Before closing the sprue cutter, you may have to gently tap the blocks with your hardwood sprue cutting piece, to be sure the blocks are aligned. And with aluminum, the word is gently. But simply having such a nice bullet design available compensates for having to be a bit more careful in making it.

[Ice]

Just want to add about the Lee molds: If you get one, get the 6 cavity gang mold. They hold the heat a lot better and its great to shuck out 6 perfect bullets at a time. The 6 cav also has a handy, easy to use 3rd handle for shearing off the sprues so you don't have to strike the sprue cutter with a mallet handle every time. For me, bullet casting is tedious and the 2 cavity mold is just too slow. I'd much rather make 100 bullets with 16 motions than with 50 motions any day.

Photo is of my Lee wadcutter mold. There will soon be a 6 cav Luger bullet mold.

Charlie

[Ingvarg]

Thanks Ice for your info. I was concerned there would be problem keeping the right heat on the 6 cav. mold and was going to get the 2 cavity, but having read this I will consider geting a 6 cavity if it,s going to be avalible at Lee soon.

[Ice]

Ingvar, you are welcome. The 6 cav mold is available now. I can guarantee you that you will love it; they are that much superior over the 2 cavity model.

Charlie

[PhilOhio]

If I had the 6-cavity mold, I'd run out of hard-to-get primers a lot faster than I do already.

Regarding mold heat, a BIG advantage of the aluminum molds is that they are not as sensitive to this as iron/steel molds. You start producing perfect bullets almost right away, and if you have to step away for a few minutes, when you come back they will still continue to come out "perfect".

But there's even a better way to guarantee this.

For years and years, when I would finish molding I would wipe a light coat of WD-40 on the blocks, inside and out, and put them into the box. Next time I would use the block, I would have to clean the lube from the cavity and cast a few bad ones before things would be up to snuff.

NEVER MORE.

An acquaintance who casts them commercially, on a large scale, set me straight. When you are finished, leave the last bullet(s) and sprues in place. If the mold is steel, wipe a thin coat of protectant on the exterior. Put it away.

Next time around, cut the sprue, drop the bullet, and start casting. But here's the amazing part. The FIRST bullet will probably come out perfect, even from a cold steel/iron mold. This will be true even if you have not used the mold for a couple years.

I have no idea why this is true. To me it was counter intuitive, after all I thought I had learned in 49 years of bullet casting. So I never ever store my molds any other way than filled. And I've never seen this method produce a spot of rust in a cavity. It is still hard for me to believe that I can usually take a cold steel Lyman or RCBS mold from storage, drop the last bullet, and start casting perfect ones if my molten lead is at working temperature...which is normally on the low end, 650 to 700 degrees these days. With the Lee aluminum molds, you can almost be sure that the first ones will be perfect every time.

It must be that the stored bullet is protecting whatever type of cavity surface conditioning occurs during casting, and is also preventing oxygen from interfering with this during long term storage. ...and that this is actually a more important consideration than mold block temperature which is, I think, what most of us experienced old school casters have always been taught and have believed.

Has this been your experience in using the 6-cavity molds also, Ice? I've never owned any of those.

It's all about fun. Have some.

[Ice]

Phil, I have been using the Lyman iron molds for years; I still do when I want those beautiful Keith bullets. At first I left the bullet in the mold just as you do. Later when Midway USA came out with their Frankfort Drop Out mold release I started using that. No trace of rust using the Drop Out and I start getting good bullets once the mold comes up to temp.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct...tnumber=763758

For the Lee molds, I've found that they work best when properly smoked. I wonder if the casting temp has some type of curing effect on the aluminum as it seems to on the iron mold. I always grease the hinge points and the locating pins with Alox prior to casting because the mold seems to work smoother. I don't leave bullets in the aluminum molds or even use Drop Out in the cavities though I do spray some on the steel sprue cutter plate to prevent rust.

Know what you mean about casting so many bullets that you could use up all the primers. I cast during cool weather and usually knock out 500-1000 bullets at a session. The 6 banger makes quick work of that project. That leaves me time to scrounge for lead. I cast for .32, .38, .44 and .45 Colt and ACP with soon to be 9mm. One thing folks on the forums recommend is to get as much lead and wheelweights as we can right now cuz the EPA is going to squeeze our hobby right out of existance.

Good shooting!

Charlie

[Ingvarg]

I found the Lee molds to be wery easy to work with as soon they are at the right temperature. To cold they wont fill properly and to hot the bullets get a "frosty" look, and also tend to stick in the mold, but as soon as one lern how to keep them at the right temperature they are pretty easy to use.
I always have wet towel on the casting table to put the molds on for a few seconds if they are getting to hot.