MythBusters: Blood pitting fact or fiction

[Hugo Borchardt]

I looked this up, and searched the forum for previous post hoping not to have to ask this question. But here it is: Is permanent blood marking or pitting on a Luger actually possible?

Seems like at least 1 out of 10 auction descriptions mention blood marking or pitting. The first time I read about "blood pitting" I actually laughed out loud, then about the 133rd time I just shake my head and assume the seller is trying to "dress up" the gun's description.

I got to thinking about it last night, and decided to ask for your comments, though I would have rather cut myself and handled one of my Lugers - and let it sit for 30 days and see what happens - than ask this question on the forum. Bring out the tar and feathers LOL. At worse case, we can all have a laugh, or I can be educated.

Here are 3 in process live auctions and a webpage mentioning blood pitting:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=131588407

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=131930018

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=132378983

http://www.antiquearmsinc.com/engrav...hort-rifle.htm

Look forward to your thoughts.

Thanks!

Clark in Nashville

[Edward Tinker]

Clark, this has been discussed before on several forums. I have been playing this game seriously the last 9 years and in the game the last 35 years and to tell you the truth I have heard both sides.

Here is what I have heard and believe myself.

1. Blood is full of stuff that will cause almost an immediate stain
2. If the gun is oiled well to decently well, there won't be any "blood pitting".
3. If the gun was taken from someone by froce and blood is on the gun and left in the holster, you will get pitting...


#3 is the one I am unsure about. I fully believe it will cause "staining".

If I did a test, is human blood "more nasty or different" than an animals (cow blood, turkey etc, so I can use what comes from a steak, or is that "watered" down?)

One of the guys on the Japanese forum used his own blood and if I remember right, it caused staining but nothing else...


Ed

[Hugo Borchardt]

Ed:

I feel better about asking the question now. I've watched enough CSI to definitely agree with #1 and #2.

It is also obiously likely that many of the military bringbacks were taken by force or battlefield pickups and would have easily been bloodstained, maybe for quite some time prior to pickup.

A possibly blood soaked holster, or holster holding the gun with blood on it, hadn't occurred to me at all. As a new collector, I am quick to make assumptions. Pitting is pitting and affects the condition of the piece, regardless of the description or cause, but since I encounter the description so often I thought it warranted asking.

Another thought: if a gun did have blood stains or marks on it, it is not possible to know that the cause wasn't something else, absent a first hand account from a vet.

The battlefield pickup stories are definitely part of the alure to some of these guns, so I guess I need to give these sellers a break. After all, they are attempting to sell...

Clark


Clark

[Ice]

Improper storage probably causes more pitting than actual blood. I can't help thinking that flesh and brain tissue along with dirt and other stuff mixed with the blood sticks to the gun and attracts and holds moisture that causes pitting. Blood pitting sounds much sexier than admitting that the gun was left untended and stuffed into a damp holster though.

Charlie

[policeluger]

so will tooth paste....don't ask how I know.

[Vlim]

Hmm, wanted to use it as whitening for the stamps and numbers?

[policeluger]

no.....was carrying 2 1911's one day and wanted to lighting to load...so tossed one in my shaving kit, the hammer punchered the tooth paste, and it sat there over night, really messed up the bluing, good thing I know a gun smith who re-blued it for free.....

[rolandtg]

Originally Posted by Ice

Improper storage probably causes more pitting than actual blood. Blood pitting sounds much sexier than admitting that the gun was left untended and stuffed into a damp holster though.

Charlie

I think that's probably the real explanation 99% of the time.....

[Went Blakely]

Blood would have some amount of saltness that would definately marr a finish but as said, it's most likely used as a fabricated selling point, rather than the drab aforementioned explanation! ^
Eek, toothpaste does it too huh? Interesting. Toothpaste can be actually quite abrasive (well i guess it needs to be, to a point) which would explain why it can also be used as quite a good metal polish on certain materials. Fresh minty aroma on a mirror finish piece of metal may be appealing to some i suppose

[policeluger]

Long story, but I once got a Savage 99 about 18 months after a man committed suicide with it, I got the gun from the police at the request of the family, they did not want to see the gun but did want me to sell it for them, after all that time uncared for, believe me there was blood pitting.......I placed it in Shot Gun News, long before the internet, stated that there was blood pitting from a suicide and it sold within days, seem the last shot did not bother some buyers...

[John Sabato]

OK Gang... personal true story... the only thing that has changed since I wrote this to go with the photos of my byf 41 in the old owner's corner (that you can still access from the lugerforum.com homepage) is that I DID trade this Luger with a forum member a couple of years ago for a like new M1A Rifle, and a bunch of magazines and accessories... why did I finally trade it? Because I had inherited my Dad's Luger and really wanted the M1A...

Go to the old owner's corner to see the refinished byf41... unfortunately, I never took any 'before' photos.

Here is the original story verbatim:

Back in 1969, while on active duty in the Army, I was apprenticing as a gunsmith in my off time with a master gunsmith named John Dusing (God rest his soul) of Waynesboro, PA. I owe most of what I know and appreciate about firearms to him. People drove for hundreds of miles to get him to work on their firearms. If he came across a screw that had a slot that his immense screwdriver collection didn't fit perfectly, he would make a new screwdriver out of drill rod, harden it, and machine a handle to fit and add it to his collection of screwdrivers. He wouldn't take a chance that he might bugger up a customers gun. he was just like that... a perfectionist.

In two years of working for John for FREE, just to gain his knowledge of firearms, metalworking and repairs, he took many guns in trade. I had always wanted a Luger of my own since my Dad had brought back one in WW2. I told him that if anyone offered a Luger for sale or trade that I was interested. About a year after I made that statement, a gentleman about my Dad's age came in to get a scope mounted on his new bolt action, and under his arm was a brown paper bag. After making arrangements to pick up his rifle with the new scope on it, he said that he also had this pistol that he wanted to sell or trade. When he emptied the bag, it was a 1941 byf Luger, a so-called "black widow" much like the left pistol on the Lugerforum.com patch. It was complete with one magazine that had a broken wooden bottom, a black P-08 holster, and the original belt and Nazi buckle. It was all matching parts except for the magazine. With that stuff laid out on the counter, he asked if we knew anyone who would give him $100.00 for this stuff?

John looked at me, and I didn't hesitate to pull my checkbook out of my back pocket. (that checkbook made that trip out of my back pocket as often as there was money in the bank to cover my hobby). My hands trembled as I wrote the check. A complete WW2 Luger rig -finally.

The top of the receiver and the front toggle was missing some bluing and had some fine pits in it, so I knew I would refinish it, and I asked him why it was like that he told me this story: He had fought in WW2 and had brought this pistol back as a trophy. During a lull in the fighting after taking a small town in France, his squad was taking a break when he and a friend came across a dead German soldier who was holding this Luger. As he reached to pick it up, his friend pulled him back and told him to be careful that it was not the bait in a booby trap. (SIDE BAR: For those of you who don't know, but have heard the term "jury-rigged" it is actually "Gerry-rigged" and was coined by American soldiers who found that retreating German soldiers often left booby-traps with bait that would entice an American to enter the trap. This bait was often a pistol or some other prized trophy.) The dead soldier's arm hung down with the weight of the pistol and a trickle of blood was running over the top of the receiver and the toggle. Upon careful inspection this vet determined that the dead soldier was indeed rigged to a nearby explosive charge and the trigger was based on removal of the luger from his hand. The two of them spent over an hour and carefully disarmed the trap and he took his prize and placed it in the holster. He was not aware that long term exposure to blood would remove the bluing, so that when he finally got around to cleaning the Luger, the blood had left a white steel streak across the top of his prize.

This luger stayed in the top of his closet from the close of the war until he sold it to me that year for $100.00. he said he would rather that somebody else own it that would shoot and appreciate it than for it to still be in the top of his closet, and he would rather have the $100.00 I was glad to oblige him. Wanting my Luger to be as "perfect" as possible, I sent it off to the blueing subcontractor and told him I wanted it's finish to look like it was a new highly polished Browning Hi-Power when I got it back. It did, and still does. all the parts that are normally strawed were polished bright and left that way. I was pleased then, but wish now that I had left it in it's original condition. If I had to sell every gun that I own, this would probably be the last one to go, but until that day comes, it is the prize of my small collection.

[Ice]

Thats a neat story. It seems that a lot of vets are letting go of their prizes nowadays, hopefully to somebody who will appreciate them.

Charlie