Opinion on Artillery Value please

Hugo Borchardt · 03-16-2009, 01:30 PM

Greetings from Nashville. I am new to luger forums.

I just purchased my first artillery luger via auction, a 1917 DWM 9mm. It is refinished, which at least was done nicely, which I knew prior to buying within my relatively meager budget.

My real problem is the serial number on the frame doesn't match the rest of the numbers, which is something I was NOT expecting upon receipt and was not represented in the photos provided. It also has three wood bottomed clips (no #'s), and what appears to be a repro holster and stock both of which have no markings whatsoever.

I am obviously contemplating returning the gun. However, before I did, I was hoping based on these pictures I could get an idea from the forum what this poor thing might still be worth.

Thanks for your time!

Clark Rickman (I edited to add my name)

lugerholsterrepair · 03-16-2009, 01:56 PM

Herr Catfish..

Welcome to the Forum. Several things might help..Your name when you sign off helps.

What did you pay for this outfit?

Are you a shooter or collector?

As a collector this pistol & holster woulf NOT satisfy my collecting interests at all.

As a shooter it MIGHT if the price were around $1200 and it actually functions correctly.

Jerry Burney

Hugo Borchardt · 03-16-2009, 02:04 PM

Jerry:

Thanks for the welcome and posting advice. I consider myself to be both a collector and a shooter.. I paid right around $1850 for it. :-(

Clark Rickman
Nashville, TN

lugerholsterrepair · 03-16-2009, 02:31 PM

Clark..The repro stock $225.00 repro mags $75 looks like one original mag? so you paid around $1500 for a mismatched shooter. Not too bad with the nice finish it seems to have. Do you know who refinished it?

A collectable Artillery pistol, all matched with the same finish would be $3500-4000.

If the bore is good and it shoots well I would say it's a keeper as a shooter. I have one Artillery shooter and I love to shoot that thing!

Jerry Burney

Edward Tinker · 03-16-2009, 02:43 PM

Since it has been refinished, it is actually immaterial that it has mismatched numbers; although having matched numbers always adds a bit more to resale value for later, but for a refinish, i don't think a huge amount?

Overall I think you paid a bit more than you should have, but not a lot, since it came with the stock and repro leathers...

Ed

DavidJayUden · 03-16-2009, 02:52 PM

Keep it and shoot it. They are great to shoot, and to fix up a fix'er upper will cost you more than that. You have earned your first Luger lesson.
DJU

lugerholsterrepair · 03-16-2009, 02:52 PM

Ed, it is actually immaterial that it has mismatched numbers.

I agree..it wouldn't matter on a shooter but it makes a difference perhaps on functioning? I would make SURE the pistol functions.

Jerry Burney

Hugo Borchardt · 03-16-2009, 05:05 PM

Jerry and Ed:

Thanks for your candor, welcome, advice, and encouraging comments. I am going to check the gun for functionality and perhaps keep it to shoot. Unfortunately I do not know who refinished the gun, but it sure looks nice. I look forward to posting a real collector-quality piece for you to see soon!

Clark

lugerholsterrepair · 03-16-2009, 08:36 PM

Clark..I look forward to posting a real collector-quality piece for you to see soon!

These pistols, stock & holsters are scarce in top shape and consequently demand big bucks. I collect Imperial Artillery & Navy..they are so expensive I don't know when I will ever get another.
I always dream of that yardsale with a 1904 Navy laying there....

Right now I am looking for an afordable original Imperial Navy stock but they are several thousand dollars all by themselves...

Good Luck!
Jerry Burney

Mike B · 03-16-2009, 10:35 PM

Jerry,
Who gave you permission to use my dreams?

Mike

lugerholsterrepair · 03-16-2009, 10:39 PM

C'mon Mike! We're Brothers in arms..we all dream alike!

Jerry Burney

Mike B · 03-16-2009, 10:49 PM

BTW, In the words of Fats Domino "Ain't That A Shame"

http://www.gunsamerica.com/976903062...Luger_1908.htm

A real 1908 Army commercial.

Mike

sheepherder · 03-17-2009, 04:24 PM

I think it looks pretty nice.

I've been looking for one that nice for awhile now; I've made $1300 my ceiling. The accessories are nice; but I'm not a collector and don't really care about accessories, matching numbers, extra/original/matching magazines, or original finish.

I'm about to bid on a LP-08 right now...

Ow!!! Outbid again!!! I guess the day of the $1300 LP-08 are long gone...

Hugo Borchardt · 03-20-2009, 05:11 PM

Update: I decided that the gun was just too damn good looking to give up. I worked it out with the gentleman and decided to keep the gun for around $1500. Thanks for everyone's input and help.

I love Lugers and though their beauty is often in the eyes of the beholder, you gotta be careful out there. I'm going to keep reading print, the web, and this board, and probably bug you guys from time to time.

Thanks again!

Clark in Nashvegas

heyjerr · 03-27-2009, 02:30 AM

I recently picked up a $1300 shooter. Numbers don't match, it had been reblued in the past, but it came with the stock. I think it's a good start for what may turn out to be many more in the future.

John Sabato · 03-27-2009, 12:08 PM

Rick W. is correct, Personal info is not required in posts on this forum. BUT, THAT SAID...Using your first name in your signature just makes the place a little more friendly... and this gun forum is friendlier than most. That is something we are rightfully proud of.

Registration on this forum requires that you give your full name. But only the first name is available to other members in your public profile. The only ones who can see the first AND last names are the moderators and admins. Posting your location needn't be as specific as Jerry... but Jerry is in business (finest leather restorer in the world as far as I am concerned) and wants folks to know where he is and how to get a hold of him.

I live in Virginia and work in Washington DC... my "location" alludes to where I am. I recommend posting at least the state you live in so other members might know how close you may be for get togethers and gun shows. As my avatar shows, I am also a proponent of posting your photograph. Makes recognizing Lugerforum friends at gunshows a little easier, and I think it makes the forum a more personal experience.

Just my $0.02 Welcome to the Lugerforum.

03-16-2009, 01:30 PM	#1
Hugo Borchardt User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Tennessee Posts: 370 Thanks: 338 Thanked 131 Times in 47 Posts	Opinion on Artillery Value please Greetings from Nashville. I am new to luger forums. I just purchased my first artillery luger via auction, a 1917 DWM 9mm. It is refinished, which at least was done nicely, which I knew prior to buying within my relatively meager budget. My real problem is the serial number on the frame doesn't match the rest of the numbers, which is something I was NOT expecting upon receipt and was not represented in the photos provided. It also has three wood bottomed clips (no #'s), and what appears to be a repro holster and stock both of which have no markings whatsoever. I am obviously contemplating returning the gun. However, before I did, I was hoping based on these pictures I could get an idea from the forum what this poor thing might still be worth. Thanks for your time! Clark Rickman (I edited to add my name) Attached Thumbnails Attached Images Last edited by Hugo Borchardt; 03-16-2009 at 02:07 PM. Reason: sign post

03-16-2009, 01:56 PM	#2
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,761 Thanks: 4,863 Thanked 3,101 Times in 1,427 Posts	Herr Catfish.. Welcome to the Forum. Several things might help..Your name when you sign off helps. What did you pay for this outfit? Are you a shooter or collector? As a collector this pistol & holster woulf NOT satisfy my collecting interests at all. As a shooter it MIGHT if the price were around $1200 and it actually functions correctly. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

03-16-2009, 02:31 PM	#4
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,761 Thanks: 4,863 Thanked 3,101 Times in 1,427 Posts	Clark..The repro stock $225.00 repro mags $75 looks like one original mag? so you paid around $1500 for a mismatched shooter. Not too bad with the nice finish it seems to have. Do you know who refinished it? A collectable Artillery pistol, all matched with the same finish would be $3500-4000. If the bore is good and it shoots well I would say it's a keeper as a shooter. I have one Artillery shooter and I love to shoot that thing! Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

03-16-2009, 02:43 PM	#5
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,915 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,506 Times in 2,080 Posts	Since it has been refinished, it is actually immaterial that it has mismatched numbers; although having matched numbers always adds a bit more to resale value for later, but for a refinish, i don't think a huge amount? Overall I think you paid a bit more than you should have, but not a lot, since it came with the stock and repro leathers... Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

03-16-2009, 02:52 PM	#7
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,761 Thanks: 4,863 Thanked 3,101 Times in 1,427 Posts	Ed, it is actually immaterial that it has mismatched numbers. I agree..it wouldn't matter on a shooter but it makes a difference perhaps on functioning? I would make SURE the pistol functions. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

03-16-2009, 02:04 PM	#3
Hugo Borchardt User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Tennessee Posts: 370 Thanks: 338 Thanked 131 Times in 47 Posts	Jerry: Thanks for the welcome and posting advice. I consider myself to be both a collector and a shooter.. I paid right around $1850 for it. :-( Clark Rickman Nashville, TN

03-16-2009, 02:52 PM	#6
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Keep it and shoot it. They are great to shoot, and to fix up a fix'er upper will cost you more than that. You have earned your first Luger lesson. DJU

03-16-2009, 05:05 PM	#8
Hugo Borchardt User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Tennessee Posts: 370 Thanks: 338 Thanked 131 Times in 47 Posts	Jerry and Ed: Thanks for your candor, welcome, advice, and encouraging comments. I am going to check the gun for functionality and perhaps keep it to shoot. Unfortunately I do not know who refinished the gun, but it sure looks nice. I look forward to posting a real collector-quality piece for you to see soon! Clark

03-16-2009, 08:36 PM	#9
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,761 Thanks: 4,863 Thanked 3,101 Times in 1,427 Posts	Clark..I look forward to posting a real collector-quality piece for you to see soon! These pistols, stock & holsters are scarce in top shape and consequently demand big bucks. I collect Imperial Artillery & Navy..they are so expensive I don't know when I will ever get another. I always dream of that yardsale with a 1904 Navy laying there.... Right now I am looking for an afordable original Imperial Navy stock but they are several thousand dollars all by themselves... Good Luck! Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

03-16-2009, 10:35 PM	#10
Mike B Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: South Louisiana Posts: 979 Thanks: 1 Thanked 271 Times in 99 Posts	Jerry, Who gave you permission to use my dreams? Mike

03-16-2009, 10:39 PM	#11
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,761 Thanks: 4,863 Thanked 3,101 Times in 1,427 Posts	C'mon Mike! We're Brothers in arms..we all dream alike! Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

03-16-2009, 10:49 PM	#12
Mike B Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: South Louisiana Posts: 979 Thanks: 1 Thanked 271 Times in 99 Posts	BTW, In the words of Fats Domino "Ain't That A Shame" http://www.gunsamerica.com/976903062...Luger_1908.htm A real 1908 Army commercial. Mike

03-17-2009, 04:24 PM	#13
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,182 Thanks: 1,398 Thanked 4,440 Times in 2,328 Posts	I think it looks pretty nice. I've been looking for one that nice for awhile now; I've made $1300 my ceiling. The accessories are nice; but I'm not a collector and don't really care about accessories, matching numbers, extra/original/matching magazines, or original finish. I'm about to bid on a LP-08 right now... Ow!!! Outbid again!!! I guess the day of the $1300 LP-08 are long gone...

03-20-2009, 05:11 PM	#14
Hugo Borchardt User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Tennessee Posts: 370 Thanks: 338 Thanked 131 Times in 47 Posts	Update: I decided that the gun was just too damn good looking to give up. I worked it out with the gentleman and decided to keep the gun for around $1500. Thanks for everyone's input and help. I love Lugers and though their beauty is often in the eyes of the beholder, you gotta be careful out there. I'm going to keep reading print, the web, and this board, and probably bug you guys from time to time. Thanks again! Clark in Nashvegas

03-27-2009, 02:30 AM	#15
heyjerr User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 17 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I recently picked up a $1300 shooter. Numbers don't match, it had been reblued in the past, but it came with the stock. I think it's a good start for what may turn out to be many more in the future.

03-27-2009, 12:08 PM	#16
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Rick W. is correct, Personal info is not required in posts on this forum. BUT, THAT SAID...Using your first name in your signature just makes the place a little more friendly... and this gun forum is friendlier than most. That is something we are rightfully proud of. Registration on this forum requires that you give your full name. But only the first name is available to other members in your public profile. The only ones who can see the first AND last names are the moderators and admins. Posting your location needn't be as specific as Jerry... but Jerry is in business (finest leather restorer in the world as far as I am concerned) and wants folks to know where he is and how to get a hold of him. I live in Virginia and work in Washington DC... my "location" alludes to where I am. I recommend posting at least the state you live in so other members might know how close you may be for get togethers and gun shows. As my avatar shows, I am also a proponent of posting your photograph. Makes recognizing Lugerforum friends at gunshows a little easier, and I think it makes the forum a more personal experience. Just my $0.02 Welcome to the Lugerforum. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*