LugerForum Discussion Forums my profile | register | faq | search
upload photo | donate | calendar

Go Back   LugerForum Discussion Forums > General Discussion Forums > General Discussions

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 11-19-2008, 08:03 AM   #1
alvin
User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: US
Posts: 3,843
Thanks: 132
Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts
Default Is Luger carbine a rifle or a pistol?

If it's classified as a rifle, the receiver (barrel extension) should be recorded in the bound book. If it's a pistol, the s/n grip frame should be recorded.

For non-matching mix master, or gun parts, which s/n should I bookkeep?? Thanks
alvin is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-19-2008, 10:26 AM   #2
Edward Tinker
Super Moderator
Eternal Lifer
LugerForum
Patron
 
Edward Tinker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: North of Spokane, WA
Posts: 15,930
Thanks: 2,030
Thanked 4,527 Times in 2,090 Posts
Default

What does the BATF say?

They call it a luger carbine, so I would use the frame;

On pistols it is the frame, not the receiver that is recorded, so never use the receiver, on mix-masters, I think I'd make a notation saying so.


Ed
__________________
Edward Tinker
************
Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers
Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

Edward Tinker is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-19-2008, 10:31 AM   #3
Lugerdoc
Patron
LugerForum
Patron
 
Lugerdoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302
Posts: 5,089
Thanks: 6
Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts
Default

Alvin, A non original "Carbine" with a barrel longer than 16" would be classified as a rifle and as usual, the frame number should be recorded. In the case of an original carbine, where the forestock extention has been installed over the frame serial, the number on the bottom of the 300mm (11&7/8ths") barrel is controlling. Lugerdoc
__________________
Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302
Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net
Lugerdoc is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-19-2008, 11:23 AM   #4
John Sabato
Lifer
Lifetime Forum
Patron
 
John Sabato's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: The Capital of the Free World
Posts: 10,154
Thanks: 3,003
Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts
Default THE "REGISTERED" PART

The BATFE has historically used the grip frame serial number as the registered part of a Luger pistol. Probably because MOST automatic pistols have their full serial number recorded on that part.

The carbine is a special case as Lugerdoc has described.

In my own humble opinion, the BATFE has always been wrong on this point because they have always felt that the part of the handgun that controls or allows the weapon to be fired is the grip FRAME. (Corrected based on Ron Wood's fabulous powers of discernment and his posting below, and my obvious error )

The Luger pistol is unique to the best of my knowledge in that a complete upper receiver is all that is required to fire a shot... merely by loading a cartridge in the chamber, closing the toggle and depressing the sear bar manually...

WARNING ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME... Don't ask how I know

...even in a padded gloved hand, this would not be a comfortable method for discharging a 9mm round.

Yet the BATF allows the top half of a Luger pistol to move in interstate commerce between unlicensed persons... but requires the frame to be transferred only between licensed FFL and C&R holders... but of course that makes as much sense as much of what the federal bureaucracy does
__________________
regards, -John S

"...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL and are endowed by their Creator with certain UNALIENABLE rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."
John Sabato is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-19-2008, 12:49 PM   #5
Ron Wood
Moderator
2010 LugerForum
Patron
 
Ron Wood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso
Posts: 7,020
Thanks: 1,090
Thanked 5,173 Times in 1,701 Posts
Default

John,
Unless I am misunderstanding what you mean it appears that you have a typographical error in your post..."BATFE has always been wrong on this point because they have always felt that the part of the handgun that controls or allows the weapon to be fired is the receiver"...should be frame.
__________________
If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction
Ron Wood is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-19-2008, 03:32 PM   #6
Edward Tinker
Super Moderator
Eternal Lifer
LugerForum
Patron
 
Edward Tinker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: North of Spokane, WA
Posts: 15,930
Thanks: 2,030
Thanked 4,527 Times in 2,090 Posts
Default

I think the Nambu T14 and T94 can be off of the frame and still fire too.


Personally i don't think I want to give them additional ideas and ways to limit what can and can't be shipped...

I've always thought it a bit silly that the frame, compeletly stripped is still considered a firearm, so can't be sent to anyone w/out an FFL
Edward Tinker is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-19-2008, 04:29 PM   #7
John Sabato
Lifer
Lifetime Forum
Patron
 
John Sabato's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: The Capital of the Free World
Posts: 10,154
Thanks: 3,003
Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts
Default

Ron you are correct... it should have read FRAME... just a senior moment... thanks for the correction.

Ed, BATFE isn't stupid... they don't need any suggestions to change things

... they are just a bureaucracy that makes big mistakes... They will never get the CLASS 3 register fixed...just as an example. It would admit too much error on their part... and they never listen to the peanut gallery cause they are ALWAYS right.
__________________
regards, -John S

"...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL and are endowed by their Creator with certain UNALIENABLE rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."
John Sabato is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:10 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 1998 - 2024, Lugerforum.com