New Artillery Barrels and rear sights

I was thinking of getting one of Sarco's new Artillery barrel $224.95 and one of their new mfg. rear Artillery sights $175, has anyone here every got one of these items or heard of someone who did,and if you or they liked it.

I was wondering if they were worth it or were they just expensive junk.

I have an original Artillery shoulder stock, but I can't use it legally with the unoriginal 6" barrel thats on my 1915 DWM Luger now, any comments?

[John Sabato]

I haven't used the Sarco Parts or even seen them but I think Tom Heller has the same parts for less money...


The most important thing I can tell you is that unless your Luger receiver falls into the same range as a genuine DWM 1915 Artillery Model, you will be creating a "FrankenAtillery" Model that can have all the artillery model parts attached to it EXCEPT the shoulder stock. The shoulder stock can only be LEGALLY attached to a genuine artillery model Luger.


Now if your current Luger was originally an artillery model that was re-worked, then you will be okay to "restore" it to it's original configuration... but it is not worth it to play games here because creation of what ATF calls a short-barreled-rifle (SBR) without paying the tax first ($200) is a felony that could cost you your right to own ANY gun...


A genuine Artillery model is one of the listed exceptions on the ATF Curio & Relic list and is not subject to the $200 tax. A reproduction of an Artillery Model has no such exception to the National Firearms Act of 1934 restrictions on short barreled rifles. Better safe than sorry ;>)


regards,


John Sabato

John thanks for the warning but I should have mentioned that the original 6" barrel and receiver came with no date on top and just a crown over an N as the only markings, the original toggle was replaced with a byf marked one but still had the original breech block and correct number 72 and Imperial military mark.

I checked the serial#772 h and it falls in the 1918 Artillery serial number range for a DWM, without a date who knows exactly which year it was made, but there is no doubt that it once was a Imperial Military Luger.

I recently got a 1915 DWM frame with 4" barrel, with a complete early matching Imperial DWM toggle assemble that I switch back and forth.

It is possible that at one time it was an Artillery as it came with an original Artillery shoulder stock, missing the original rear toggle which could have been an Artillery rear toggle,and original barrel, and once again the serial number falls in range of DWM Artillery in 1918.

I think I have a good case for restoring to Artillery configuration.

What do you think John?

I have used the Sarco artillery barrels and sights. email me for more info.

[Kyrie]

Hi Rich,


I would strongly recommend against speculating as to whether or not the Luger was originally an Artillery Luger. Especially based on further speculation that the shoulder stock that came with it is in any way related to the Luger in question.


If you do take action to make up an Artillery Luger and then attach a shoulder stock to that recreation of an Artillery, ATF may well disagree that what you have created is an Artillery Luger under the meaning of the C&R regulations. Should they disagree, that disagreement will take the form of an arrest and prosecution for the manufacturing and possession of an unregistered NFA weapon. At your trial ATF will present testimony as to your guilt from a series of their expert witnesses, all of whom will have credentials neither you nor any expert witness you could recruit could hope to match. Based on the evidence presented, it is likely you would be convicted. Penalties include a fine up to $250,000 and twenty years in a Federal Penitentiary.


Even if you should be acquitted, the cost of your legal defense would be more than the cost of a dozen genuine Artillery Lugers.


To avoid all this I strongly suggest contacting ATF before you take any action and request a ruling on what you are contemplating. Here is contact information:


Chief, Firearms Technology Branch

DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY

BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO AND FIREARMS

WASHINGTON, DC 20226


A letter and a thirty-four sent stamp is cheap insurance against a legal disaster from which neither you nor your family would ever recover.


Best regards,


Kyrie

[John Sabato]

the proper installation of an artillery barrel and rear sight is no guarantee that the gun was originally an artillery model that was modified after WW1 for 4" holster duty. The fact that the receiver does not have a date stamp or crest (Persian) makes it suspect that it is likely a commercial upper. Keep searching for documented genuine artillery parts to assemble, or buy a poor condition LP-08 and have it rebuilt, but stay out of trouble...


I agree with Kyrie that you document a request to ATF and abide by their decision before you build anything that could cost you your freedom. The high cost of purchasing a complete artillery model Luger pales in comparison to a jail sentence or the loss of your right to own a gun.


regards,


John Sabato

Find the address of "schwob" here on the forum .

He is a retired Legal authority on the subject .

He will guide your path if you will follow .

Don't try it without his input .(Too Much To Loose"

ViggoG