Choosing who to vote for... (LONG)

[George Anderson]

Albert, as do the French, Americans typically vote the interests of their own country rather than the interests of the international community as a whole.

[alanint]

Truer Words were never spoken...........

http://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/l...ry/723792.html


ADMIN: This is from the opinion pages.

[Ron Wood]

I do not think that the current firearm regulations will worsen after Obama wins

Albert - You said; â??I might receive many negative remarksâ?�â?¦consider this as one of them â?? you are out of touch with what the rank and file of the liberal leaders in congress can and will do if given free rein.

look at the mess of the US economy which was created by the Bush's administration lose and careless economic policies

Again you are out of touch with reality. The â??messâ?� was created by the lame-duck congress under the last days of the Clinton administration when they removed all restrictions on derivative investments, even to the extent that they blocked individual states statutes that prohibited such practices. The derivative investment free wheeling and dot com â??lose [sic] and careless economic policiesâ?� all originated before Bush.

[John Sabato]

An Item from Cnet.news to help you make up your mind (if you haven't already):

(reference: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10075746-38.html )

Govt. data on 'Joe the Plumber' illegally accessed?

Government computers in Ohio may been used to illegally access personal information about Samuel Joseph Wurzelbacher, otherwise known as "Joe the Plumber," according to the Columbus Dispatch.

During their October 15 debate, presidential candidates Barack Obama and John McCain referred to "Joe the Plumber" constantly. In the days following the debate, information on Wurzelbacher's driver's license or his sport utility vehicle was retrieved from the Ohio Bureau of Motor Vehicles database three times, the Dispatch reported.

With access to such information limited to legitimate law enforcement and government business, state and local officials are now investigating whether the information was obtained illegally. The information was retrieved using accounts assigned to the Ohio attorney general's office, a county child support enforcement agency, and the Toledo Police Department, according to the report.

An Ohio spokesman for the McCain campaign told the Dispatch that the information breach may have been politically motivated.

"It's outrageous to see how quickly Barack Obama's allies would abuse government power in an attempt to smear a private citizen who dared to ask a legitimate question," Paul Lindsay told the Dispatch.

The Obama campaign refuted those claims.

"Invasions of privacy should not be tolerated," Isaac Baker, an Obama spokesman, told the Dispatch. "If these records were accessed inappropriately, it had nothing to do with our campaign and should be investigated fully."

=======================

Yeah let's just get this investigation done before Nov. 4th!

Guess which party the current Ohio Attorney General is a member of...

[Russ]

Albert. Listen to what Ron Wood has to say. He just scratched the surface. Look at who has reaped the benafits of deregulateing the banking system and Fanni may and freddy mac. Done by the clinton administration.



Russ

[Russ]

Here is a little more reading if you are intrested in why we are in this mess.....




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: HOW WE GOT INTO THIS MESS





HAVE YOU EVER WONDERED HOW THE CURRENT MORTGAGE AND FINANCIAL CRISIS DEVELOPED?

JUST SCROLL DOWN AND READ THE FOLLOWING ARTICLE. IT REALLY MAKES YOU SICK ABOUT UNCONTROLLED POLITICS. . . .

AND TO THINK THAT SOME PEOPLE WERE ABLE TO ENRICH THEMSELVES TREMENDOUSLY. . .AND OTHERS WHO WERE THE SUPPOSED BENEFICIARIES OF GOVERNMENT LARGESS, ULTIMATELY, ARE MADE TO SUFFER EVEN MORE. . NOT TO MENTION THE RIPPLING EFFECTS ON THE FINANCIAL STRUCTURES OF OTHER COUNTRIES.

AND WE TAXPAYER CITIZENS AND OUR CHILDREN AND OUR GRANDCHILDREN HAVE TO PAY FOR THIS WHOLE MESSY AND EXHORBITANTLY EXPENSIVE BUSINESS. WHERE IS THE JUSTICE IN THIS SITUATION?

Check out the videos at the end!

1977: Pres. Jimmy Carter signs the Community Reinvestment Act (CRA) into Law. The law pressured financial institutions to extend home loans to those
who would otherwise not qualify. The Premise: Home ownership would improve poor and crime-ridden communities and neighborhoods in terms of crime, investment, jobs, etc.

RESULTS: Statistics bear out that it did not help.

How did the government get so deeply involved in the housing market?
Answer: Bill Clinton wanted it that way.

1992: Republican representative Jim Leach (IO) warned of the danger that Fannie and Freddie were changing from being agencies of the public at large to
money machines for the principals and the stockholding few.

1993: Clinton extensively rewrote Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac's rules, turning the quasi-private mortgage-funding firms into semi-nationalized monopolies dispensing cash and loans to large Democratic voting blocks and handing favors, jobs, and contributions to political allies. This potent mix led inevitably to corruption and now to the collapse of Freddie and Fannie.

1994: Despite warnings, Clinton unveiled his National Home-Ownership Strategy which broadened the Community Reinvestment Act (CRA) in ways congress had never intended.

1995: When Congress about to change from a Democrat majority to Republican, Clinton ordered Robert Rubin's Treasury Dept to rewrite the rules.
Robt. Rubin's Treasury reworked rules, forcing banks to satisfy quotas for sub-prime and minority loans in order to get a satisfactory CRA rating.
The rating was key to expansion or mergers for banks. Loans began to be made on the basis of race and little else.

1997 - 1999: Clinton, bypassing Republicans, enlisted Andrew Cuomo, then Secretary of Housing and Urban Development,
allowing Freddie and Fannie to get into the sub-prime market in a BIG way. Led by Rep.Barney Frank and Sen. Chris Dodd, congress doubled down
on the risk by easing capital limits and allowing them to hold just 2.5% of capital to back their investments vs.10% for banks.

Since Freddie and Fannie could borrow at lower rates than banks, their enterprises boomed. With incentives in place, banks poured billions in loans into poor communities, often "no doc", "no income", requiring no money down and no verification of income. Worse still was the cronyism: Fannie and Freddie became home to out-of work-politicians, mostly Clinton Democrats. 384 politicians got big campaign donations from Fannie and Freddie.

Over $200 million had been spent on lobbying and political activities. During the 1990's Fannie and Freddie enjoyed a subsidy of as much as $182 Billion, most of it going to principals and shareholders, not to poor borrowers, as claimed.

Did it work? Minorities made up 49% of the 12.5 million new homeowners, but many of those loans have gone bad and the minority homeownership rates are shrinking fast.

1999: New Treasury Secretary, Lawrence Summers, became alarmed at Fannie and Freddie's excesses.
Congress held hearings the ensuing year but nothing was done because Fannie and Freddie had donated millions to key congressmen and radical groups, ensuring no meaningful changes would take place.

"We manage our political risk with the same intensity that we manage our credit and interest rate risks," Fannie CEO Franklin Raines, a former Clinton official and current Barack Obama advisor, bragged to investors in 1999.

2000: Secretary Summers sent Undersecretary Gary Gensler to Congress seeking an end to the "special status".

Democrats raised a ruckus as did Fannie and Freddie, headed by politically connected CEO's who knew how to reward and punish "We think that the statements evidence a contempt for the nation's housing and mortgage markets" Freddie spokesperson Sharon McHale said. It was the last chance during the Clinton era for reform.

2001: Republicans try repeatedly to bring fiscal sanity to Fannie and Freddie but Democrats blocked any attempt at reform; especially Rep. Barney Frank and Sen Chris Dodd who now run key banking committees and were huge beneficiaries of campaign contributions from the mortgage giants.

2003: Bush proposes what the NY Times called "the most significant regulatory overhaul in the housing finance industry since
the savings and loan crisis a decade ago". Even after having discovered a scheme by Fannie and Freddie to
overstate earnings by $10.6 billion (in order to boost their bonuses), the Democrats killed the attempt to reform.

2005: Then Fed chairman Alan Greenspan warned Congress: "We are placing the total financial system at substantial risk". (His warning proved to be true.)

With two others, Sen.McCain co-sponsored a Fannie/Freddie reform bill and said, "If congress does not act, American taxpayers will continue to be exposed to the enormous risk that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac pose to the housing market, to the overall financial system and to the economy as a whole". Sen. Harry Reid accused the GOP of trying to "cripple the ability of Fannie and Freddie to carry out their mission of expanding homeownership"
The bill went nowhere.

2007: By this time Fannie and Freddie owned or guaranteed over HALF of the $12 trillion US mortgage market. These mortgage giants, whose executive suites were top-heavy with former Democratic officials, had been working with Wall St.
to repackage the bad loans and sell them to investors. As the housing market fell in '07, subprime mortgage portfolios suffered major losses. The crisis, which took 15 years in the making, was on.

2008: McCain had repeatedly called for reforming the behemoths, Bush had urged reform 17 times. Still the media have continued to repeat the Democrats' talking points about this being a "Republican" disaster.

True that a few Republicans are complicit, but the long and the short of it is that Fannie and Freddie were: Created by Democrats, regulated by Democrats, largely run by Democrats, and protected by Democrats

And now taxpayers are being asked for $700 billion!! For whom? For Wall Street? For Mortgage insurance companies?
For poor home owners? Or to protect culpable government officials?

If you doubt any of this, just click the links below and listen to your lawmakers own words. They are self-condemning!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68D9X...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68D9X...eature=related
http://www.youtubecom/watch?v=pIgqfM5C8lY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIgqfM5C8lY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9juJ...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9juJ...eature=related

POSTCRIPT:
ACORN is one of the principle beneficiaries of Fannie/Freddie's slush funds. Both funds are currently under
indictment or investigation in many states. Barack Obama served as their legal counsel, defending their activities for several years.

Feel free to share this with everyone you know.
Send it. Print it. Talk about it. America needs to know!!!
Below is the link to the IDB editorial that the author of the above article used to develop the chronological dates leading to where we are today.

http://www.ibdeditorial.com/IBDArtic...7149667289804_
http://www.ibdeditorial.com/IBDArtic...07149667289804)

[Edward Tinker]

Russ, the story about Obama and the flag is not true, and has come out in several variations;

http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/o/obama-pin.htm

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/stance.asp

[John Sabato]

Sorry Russ, but your posting about disarming America from Dale Lindsborg ,
at the washington post has been proven to be false by Snopes. com because Obama did not appear on Meet the Press on that September Sunday.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/stance.asp

Please verify your facts before you post them. As much as I don't want the Democrats to win this election, we have to be sure that our arguments are valid.

I guess that Fast Ed Tinker must have been typing while I was researching the facts for this post...

[Russ]

I guess I should of not jumped the gun ...I will delete it..

[Imperial Arms]

Without offending anybody's beliefs or religion, 'it is a bitter pill to swallow' to recognize that the 911 tragedy was the result of the long term support (politically and military) to the Jews by the previous American administrations allowing the Jewish government the free hand to seize lands from the Palestine people and making them into poor refugees. If the next administration continues on the same course without trying to solve this central problem, it is my opinion that somebody will learn what it means 'to be out touch' and the US will continue to be a target for another attack on the mainland or overseas. This is an escalating fact and not to be 'sugar coated' with other wrong opinions. If McCain keeps a closed door policy on this matter and reckons that the problem is in Iraq where a battle ground was created on Arab land, the infection will continue to grow. We westerners do not feel the pain of those thousands of (innocent) people who have been killed or seriously wounded because of America's wrong decisions and policies. During the Cold War, Israel was America's nearest ally against the Russians, but this period had pasted - now it is returning again as a result of excessive NATO expansion. Let the people of each country set their course without the US becoming to involved in other foreign matters.

Most people on forums discuss this topic with their hobby in mind and they do not want to look at the wider issues in a neutral manner. If this world could ever become a peaceful place, I would gladly reduce the attention that I place on my collection and direct it to the people who need more care and consideration instead of wasting money on bombs and bullets. McCain is a politican who carries a 'loaded gun' because he wants to continue the war in Iraq and I believe that this is a dangerous game which could back-fire. As a team effort, I believe that Obama-Biden will be a much better team than compared to McCain-Paline.

I believe that credit should be given to Bill Clinton for nearly reaching an agreement for a road map to the Middle East situation, and also giving the US a strong economy when he was in office. I do not believe that it took eight years for the bubble to finally burst without putting any blame on the Bush administration.

Albert

[George Anderson]

Ah yes it's the Jews of course who are behind all the world's problems. Now Albert's position is much more clear.

[alanint]

How exactly do the Israelis reach an agreement with a group that has Israel's utter destruction as part of its "constitution"?

[Imperial Arms]

Don't misunderstand me that I have a dislike for the Jews, but I do recognize that the israeli-Palestinian conflict is the main issue which must be resolved and not continue to use Iraq and Iran a distraction. In fact, one of my best friends is half Jewish and we respect each others views/opinions.

The Iranians will never use a nuclear bomb on Isaeli causing the death of thousands/millions of Arabs in neigbouring countries. Before the American administration becomes too worried about Iran, with many US politicians repeatedly bringing up the same old motivation of Iran wanting to destroy Israel, the US administration should first finish their negotations with the North Koreans who were much closer to building a nuclear bomb who could threaten to use it against the US or South Korea. I am surprised that the American administration do not do a damn thing against the Russians who are helping the Iranians to build their nuclear plants. I wonder why?

Albert

[Heinz]

Let me see if I understand this argument. The UN sets up a country for Israel and a country for the Arabs over 50 years ago. The Palestinians do not like the idea of Israel being a country so they immediately try to destroy it. The are unsuccessful time after time, starting wars and losing the war and teritory to Israel. Russia begins to support the Palestinians and the US supports the Israelis. The Palestinians and alimited coalition of other Arab countries and the Russians lose again.

Having demonstrated a renowned lack of prowess at organized warfare the Palestinian/Arabs place more and more reliance on terrrorism, a tactic that had been used early on by the Israelis. Terrorism does not acheive much against the Israelis so a subgroup of the Arabs (NOT all of the Arabs) make this a religious war and focus on the US as the great patron of Christianity, or the great Satan or whatever.

Well then, Albert, if that is the kind of realpolitik you support then I would offer that Iraq and Afaganistan are exactly the appropriate retribution from the US to those countries who chose to defy the US. They should be thankful we did not react in the way Al Queda or Sadam Hussein would have reacted toward Israel if they had the power.

The US is the leading power in the world. The current economic crisis reinforces that. If we stumble, the world shakes. Europe should get used to the fact they could handle niether the Germans nor the Russians on their own. The Soviet Union was defeated by the US, not the common market. They want Obama because he would level the playing field by strapping the US with "wealth redistribution."

[Imperial Arms]

A Headline today on Yahoo News:

"North Korea's military threatened on Tuesday to use everything in its arsenal to reduce South Korea to rubble unless Seoul stops civic groups from sending anti-Pyongyang leaflets into the communist state."

Do I hear destruction or saber-rattling? What is the difference between this threat from the North Koreans and the so-called threat from the Iranians who call for the destruction of Israel? I suppose that the North Korean threat is more serious, except it is not in an area where the American's have today a large national interest - OIL (Black Gold)!! America will be dependent on oil for a long, long time while the Russians are becoming a main supplier of oil (to Europe).

The US is indeed the leading power of the world, but have you ever heard of 'abuse of power'? Eventually, the Chinese will become the world economic power (and maybe military power as well) because the Americans are seen as greedy and arrogant.

I do not support any form of politics (I prefer to be independent), but I am able to understand how wrong policies can bring about terrible situations. I reckon that Israel and the Palestinians can live side-by-side, but somebody needs to use their weight and stop this sh** in a diplomatic way. However, I guess that the Americans do not want peace in the Middle East because they prefer to label some countries as terrorist-supporting states without making any attempt to start a dialogue to bring about peace. The American government is always demanding for the 3C's - "conditions, conditions, conditons" before any dialogue begins!! (I do not mean conditions as regards to 'condition i.e. near mint'!)

Albert

[Edward Tinker]

Albert, I am unsure why you "call" America home (you list "Florida"), as you don't sound very happy about it, let alone you stated you can't vote; thus are not an American?

Why should America do ANYTHING about North Korea? They aren't our neighbor and why don't you say (from whatever country you do call home and where you can vote in your own country); that YOUR country should go to the Middle East or Korea? Not sure why folks think its the USA's problem, then raise hell about how we do it.

It is very convienent of other countries to ask us to risk life and limb for them....



Ed

[alanint]

Why do all foreigners bring up the US's "National Interest" as if it were a dirty word?
I have news for you, Albert, ALL countries act out of national Interest, including wherever you originate from.
As far as North Korea is concerned, (aside from our legitimate NATIONAL INTEREST in being more concerned over our oil supplies), we are less concerned about North Korea because its track record has always been one of chest pounding and saber rattling within its own borders. Today it poses no real threat to its neighbors simply because it knows China (forget the US or UN), would crush it should it upset the global apple cart, (and North Korea knows China, unlike the rest of the world, could not care less about world opinion should it invade).
Iran, on the other hand, is ruled by religious zealots who have actively called for our and Israel's destruction and who have repeatedly crossed its borders or funded surrogates to do harm abroad. They are unstable and are ruled by religious passion rather than common sense, and have proved this repeatedly. They are willing to risk self-destruction to strike out at the infidels. This tenet alone makes them infinitely more dangerous than North Korea, who IS interested in self-preservation and worthy of a preemptive nuclear strike from the US at some time in the future.
You really need to study world politics more thoroughly

[alanint]

Alberet,

Let me expand further on your comments;

"The US is indeed the leading power of the world, but have you ever heard of 'abuse of power'? Eventually, the Chinese will become the world economic power (and maybe military power as well) because the Americans are seen as greedy and arrogant."

Gee, I never hear these comments when we are pouring millions into their country after a natural disaster or to shore up their economy or defend them against an aggressive neighbor!
Any foreigner who thinks we are greedy and arrogant is an ungrateful, envious ass. We are the most generous people in the world, who have shared more with others than all other countries combined.

Let's see if you have the stones to answer a few simple questions;
Where were you born?
If you are foreign born, how long have you been in the US?
Have you served in our military or in any capacity while a guest here?
How have you contributed to the US's growth?

My family has served the US in every war dating back to the war of 1812
I have two senators and one congressman in my family tree
As Irish, we overcame vast distrimination upon our arrival, but built a useful place in society
I am currently active in a number of civic associations and have involved my son as well.
Families like mine built this country
If you can't point to similar achievements, then you are one of the thousands who are here to merely exploit this country.
And you still have the gall to bad mouth it?
I wonder how similar comments directed at your homeland would be received back in your native land?

[Imperial Arms]

Hello Ed,

I should have updated my profile to indicate that I now reside in El Salvador, Central America, but I shall be relocating to Europe in the Spring. Actually, I am German which means that I cannot vote in the US.

Is Iraq your 'neighbour', or only after it was invaded by the US? Was Iraq an IMMINENT THREAT to the US while meetings were occurring at the United Nations Security Council regarding WMD's (do not include Israel who are quite capable of defending for themselves)? For your information, Iraq did not even have a missile system to fire WMD's at the US, unless we identify the US and Israel as 'one nation'. If the Bush administration could have waited another 30 days to allow the inspection process to continue, this war could have been avoided. Instead, the US could not wait any longer to allow the inspection process to be finally completed about Iraq having WMD's which they never found any stockpiles. During WWI and WWII, Imperial and Nazi Germany became evil, however, after the war, the civilian population knew the meaning of freedom and accepted it. With regards to the Arabs, they are a completely difficult culture which most Americans do not understand including their religion, faith, values and principles. American 'freedoms' are incompatible with those of the Arabs and America cannot impose themselves on other countries and religions.

It is ironic how the US is the main force behind NATO, however, when it comes to Israel, the US will do everything to protect that country. For example, if the Russia decided to invade the Czech Republic because of the missile defence system that the US wants to station in that country, would the US come to their rescue or instead request other NATO European countries to repel an attack? It is obvious that the Bush administration plays its own 'card game' using the 'Bush Doctrine' which Paline could not properly answer during an interview!

Was any of the 911 attackers from Iraq or Iran? NOPE! Most were from the other 'neighbour' named Saudi Arabia. The American people should accept the fact that the Bush administration seriously screwed up and tried to make all these lame excuses afterwards why they invaded a sovereign country!

It was wise for Germany and many other European countries not be involved in the invasion of Iraq because Germany has no reason to be involved in the occupation of Iraq. If the Germany and any other European country needs oil from Iraq, they should buy it or trade something for it!

Albert

[Edward Tinker]

blah, blah.... I am always amazed at how I hear the same dribble from some europeans about how "americans" don't know this or that, like they do.


THIS POST IS CLOSED; AND PLEASE LET SLEEPING DOGS LIE.... IF IT GETS BROUGHT UP AGAIN, I WILL DELETE IT.