Serial number sizes

BILL · 11-15-2001, 10:55 PM

Does anyone know where I can find a list of the serial number sizes on various Luger parts? I know I saw an exploded diagram somewhere of location and size of stamp. This would be invaluable for identifying some of the recent stampings that show up on old parts. Am I dreaming or did I just lose my page number?

bill m · 11-16-2001, 12:03 AM

Hi Bill,

I think you are dreaming. The serial number size and placement varied somewhat from manufacture to manufacture. I know Mausers better than the other manufactures and within a variation -- say a 1939/42 -- the size of the serial numbers will vary within letter blocks. Some are smaller than others on the left receiver, sideplate, and ect. -- Also, on 1940/42 variations, you will also find what I call the normal size serial numbers and then some with a slightly larger size. These slightly largers serial numbers are also larger on the magazines. The early Mausers (k-dates and G-dates) have a unique and different style of serial numbers than the later variations. I was told that this is due to the changing of number dies (replacing the worn out ones)and this contributed to the different styles and size.

Thor · 11-16-2001, 12:41 AM

Bill, is there any credance to a possible theory that an Early Vintage variations MIGHT have clearer stampings if a new stamp die had just begun to be used? Just a wondering on my part? You have seen so many, you would be a good one to ask this question! Thor

bill m · 11-16-2001, 01:05 AM

Hi Ted,

I really do not know, as who knows when the number dies or acceptance dies were changed. I do not know how many they could do with each die, or if breakage was a problem. Naturally, when the die was "fresh", if would give a sharper image than it would when it was more "blunted", but the numbers I've observed have all be clear and distinct, but a few of the acceptance stamps, especially the 655 have not been that distinct on some. Whether this is due to worn dies, or poor application, or the general hardness of the gun at the receiver area, I'm not sure.

Thor · 11-16-2001, 01:10 AM

Thanks Bill! Thor

BILL · 11-16-2001, 01:38 AM

Someone points out that in 'The Luger Story' on pp. 134-135, there is a chart with associated stamps, numbers, letters and sizes. Upon further research it is the number placement and sizes and types for the 1911 German Army acceptance of the Luger. While this probably is not accurate for the post WWI era it is still quite interesting. I wish my German was a little better.

G.T. · 11-16-2001, 08:12 AM

There are several factors that influence the size of a stamp or die impression....if you use the overall dimension across the sharp edges as an unchanged base starting point, several simple factors will affect image size, they are as follows: #1 the angle of the die face ...if it is sharp, say 30 degrees, the stamped image will appear small, 45 degrees, and the stamped image appears larger! #2 depth of strike...if light, small image...hard, large image! #3 condition of die, sharp, small....dull, large! Stamps and dies have always been very accurate, especially in this last century...I feel Mauser used several different stamp set types & sizes through out production, but I think that all the stamps of a given set, were accurate and uniform through out their use period....visual differences in number images, occured from points listed above and buffing or finishing work done after the fact....just my opinion, and, life rule # 1 "Nothing is ever as it seems" till....later...G.T.

G.T. · 11-16-2001, 08:17 AM

11-16-2001, 07:44 PM

Yah, but I had to read it three times to catch the odbeous word bean miseplled...

G.T. · 11-16-2001, 08:04 PM

BILL · 11-16-2001, 10:11 PM

I agree that there are some reasons why stamps would appear larger or smaller but I have seen some mag bottom stamps that were HUGE and some that were obviously not from the die set that stamped the same serial number on the pistol. Just a few examples: The three can have a round top or a flat top (two different die styles) and the four can be an open or a closed four (again, two different styles) also the one can have a ninety degree angled serif on the top or a 'droopy' top. I have seen a curly two and a straight two. These different styles also come in different sizes and from what I have observed, where there is a full serial the numbers are all of the same type and size. Probably the most apparent failure of this is on the magazines. I might be wrong but I believe that all mag bottoms with the full serial are stamped with the same size as the barrel and receiver. Any other observations on style and size of stamps?

bill m · 11-16-2001, 10:58 PM

Hi Bill,

When looking at magazine serial numbers you have to compare them to what they are and the manufacture. For instance, Police magazines of the Weimar era are different than Mauser police magazines. Anything that is oversized on the base of the magazine is a Weimar magazine. We are not talking about import stuff here, but original issue magazines. When looking at Mauser magazines, they should be exactly the same size and style as what is on the left receiver. You have to know the manufacture and what is correct to each, and stay in each group, for instance Mauser military, or Mauser police, or Weimar police and not intermix them.

11-16-2001, 01:05 AM	#4
bill m User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 385 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Serial numbers, Proofs & Acceptance Stamps Hi Ted, I really do not know, as who knows when the number dies or acceptance dies were changed. I do not know how many they could do with each die, or if breakage was a problem. Naturally, when the die was "fresh", if would give a sharper image than it would when it was more "blunted", but the numbers I've observed have all be clear and distinct, but a few of the acceptance stamps, especially the 655 have not been that distinct on some. Whether this is due to worn dies, or poor application, or the general hardness of the gun at the receiver area, I'm not sure.

11-16-2001, 01:10 AM	#5
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Re: Serial numbers, Proofs & Acceptance Stamps Thanks Bill! Thor

11-16-2001, 01:38 AM	#6
BILL User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Western Washington Posts: 826 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Serial numbers, Proofs & Acceptance Stamps Someone points out that in 'The Luger Story' on pp. 134-135, there is a chart with associated stamps, numbers, letters and sizes. Upon further research it is the number placement and sizes and types for the 1911 German Army acceptance of the Luger. While this probably is not accurate for the post WWI era it is still quite interesting. I wish my German was a little better.

11-16-2001, 08:12 AM	#7
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,507 Thanks: 1,318 Thanked 3,653 Times in 1,004 Posts	Obivious, but overlooked! There are several factors that influence the size of a stamp or die impression....if you use the overall dimension across the sharp edges as an unchanged base starting point, several simple factors will affect image size, they are as follows: #1 the angle of the die face ...if it is sharp, say 30 degrees, the stamped image will appear small, 45 degrees, and the stamped image appears larger! #2 depth of strike...if light, small image...hard, large image! #3 condition of die, sharp, small....dull, large! Stamps and dies have always been very accurate, especially in this last century...I feel Mauser used several different stamp set types & sizes through out production, but I think that all the stamps of a given set, were accurate and uniform through out their use period....visual differences in number images, occured from points listed above and buffing or finishing work done after the fact....just my opinion, and, life rule # 1 "Nothing is ever as it seems" till....later...G.T.

11-16-2001, 08:17 AM	#8
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,507 Thanks: 1,318 Thanked 3,653 Times in 1,004 Posts	Re: Obvious, but overlooked! Spell check!!!

11-15-2001, 10:55 PM	#1
BILL User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Western Washington Posts: 826 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Serial number sizes Does anyone know where I can find a list of the serial number sizes on various Luger parts? I know I saw an exploded diagram somewhere of location and size of stamp. This would be invaluable for identifying some of the recent stampings that show up on old parts. Am I dreaming or did I just lose my page number?

11-16-2001, 12:03 AM	#2
bill m User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 385 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Serial number sizes Hi Bill, I think you are dreaming. The serial number size and placement varied somewhat from manufacture to manufacture. I know Mausers better than the other manufactures and within a variation -- say a 1939/42 -- the size of the serial numbers will vary within letter blocks. Some are smaller than others on the left receiver, sideplate, and ect. -- Also, on 1940/42 variations, you will also find what I call the normal size serial numbers and then some with a slightly larger size. These slightly largers serial numbers are also larger on the magazines. The early Mausers (k-dates and G-dates) have a unique and different style of serial numbers than the later variations. I was told that this is due to the changing of number dies (replacing the worn out ones)and this contributed to the different styles and size.

11-16-2001, 12:41 AM	#3
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Re: Serial numbers, Proofs & Acceptance Stamps Bill, is there any credance to a possible theory that an Early Vintage variations MIGHT have clearer stampings if a new stamp die had just begun to be used? Just a wondering on my part? You have seen so many, you would be a good one to ask this question! Thor

11-16-2001, 07:44 PM	#9
66mustang Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Obvious, but overlooked! Spell check!!! Yah, but I had to read it three times to catch the odbeous word bean miseplled...

11-16-2001, 08:04 PM	#10
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,507 Thanks: 1,318 Thanked 3,653 Times in 1,004 Posts	Hi Ed! Sometimes I get Obvious & Oblivious mixed up!!

11-16-2001, 10:11 PM	#11
BILL User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Western Washington Posts: 826 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Hi Ed! Sometimes I get Obvious & Oblivious mixed up!! I agree that there are some reasons why stamps would appear larger or smaller but I have seen some mag bottom stamps that were HUGE and some that were obviously not from the die set that stamped the same serial number on the pistol. Just a few examples: The three can have a round top or a flat top (two different die styles) and the four can be an open or a closed four (again, two different styles) also the one can have a ninety degree angled serif on the top or a 'droopy' top. I have seen a curly two and a straight two. These different styles also come in different sizes and from what I have observed, where there is a full serial the numbers are all of the same type and size. Probably the most apparent failure of this is on the magazines. I might be wrong but I believe that all mag bottoms with the full serial are stamped with the same size as the barrel and receiver. Any other observations on style and size of stamps?

11-16-2001, 10:58 PM	#12
bill m User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 385 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Serial Numbers Hi Bill, When looking at magazine serial numbers you have to compare them to what they are and the manufacture. For instance, Police magazines of the Weimar era are different than Mauser police magazines. Anything that is oversized on the base of the magazine is a Weimar magazine. We are not talking about import stuff here, but original issue magazines. When looking at Mauser magazines, they should be exactly the same size and style as what is on the left receiver. You have to know the manufacture and what is correct to each, and stay in each group, for instance Mauser military, or Mauser police, or Weimar police and not intermix them.