P08 Malfunction...

Grasshopper · 07-01-2008, 11:50 AM

I picked up a 1936 Luger (non-matching) not too long ago, in very nice condition.

I took it out for a range session, and put around 50 rounds through it, with NO malfunctions..it worked flawlessly. Half of the ammo was Winchester White Box 115gr., whereas the other half was American Eagle, also 115gr. (all of it fmj ball).

I took it out again Sunday and put about 24 rounds through it with no issues, when all of a sudden it stopped ejecting the spent cartridge from the pistol. The spent cartridge will extract from the chamber, but won't eject from the pistol: It's doing this with both ammo types, and with both magazines (one is an Erma magazine, the other is a triple K). I seriously doubt the issue is ammo or magazine related.

Any insight you all can give me will be greatly appreciated.

THANKS!

John Sabato · 07-01-2008, 12:01 PM

Sounds like you have broken the tip off the ejector!

Grasshopper · 07-01-2008, 12:53 PM

Well....that ain't good news! I was kind of thinking that....

Ok, so, how easy is it to get a replacement part?

John Sabato · 07-01-2008, 03:22 PM

If that is your problem, just put your needs in the WANTED forum. Tom Heller (Lugerdoc) can help you out with a replacement part.

Post a photo of the top of your Luger with the toggle in the held-open position... you should be able to see the ejector in the opening. Then I can tell you if it is broken...

The ejector is part number 016 on this diagram, so you can see what it looks like... the protrusion near the number 016 is the part that is likely broken off:

lugerholsterrepair · 07-01-2008, 04:18 PM

Marlan, You can pop this part out relatively easily. At the back of the pistol where the spring ends in a square, there is a tiney well under this end carefully slip a tiney flat head screwdriver under this end and gently pry upwards. A short round holding pin will pop out of it's socket. The spring then can be removed.

With the bolt out, like John says..you can see if the tip is missing. It will stick right into the chamber area if it is intact. You can see it easily.

Jerry Burney

Grasshopper · 07-02-2008, 10:17 AM

It's definitely broken off!!!

Ok, so what I need to know is, does the replacement part need to be 'fitted'? Also, once fitted, does it need to be hardened or anything like that?

I'm trying to decide should I get the part and do it myself, or should I have a local gunsmith familiar with Lugers do it.

I'm a Glock and Remington Armorer, but I'm not a gunsmith.....

Lugerdoc · 07-02-2008, 10:33 AM

GH, The PO8 ejector will most likely require some fitting. There are 2 projections on the bottom side. Sometimes the forward one (not the tip) will have to be relieved at the front for ease of instalation. TH

lugerholsterrepair · 07-02-2008, 11:51 AM

Marlan, This IS a hardned part. Most springs are. I have switched out many originals. I wouldn't fool around with a repro. If LugerDoc has an original it's my guess it will have a good chance of slipping right in.

These are tricky to install though. Like the takedown spring, they have an arch in their back. This arch must be depressed to slip the rearward round socket into it's round hole in the frame.
I usually slip in the ejector protrusion and run my finger rearwards to press out the arch and sometimes you get lucky, it simply pops into place.
Other times you have to finagle it, look closely under a magnifying light and see if it needs to go forward or back. I have also used a plastic tap hammer to nudge it a bit.
I guess it depends on how handy you are.

Did you get it out?

Jerry Burney

Grasshopper · 07-02-2008, 12:07 PM

No, I didn't take it out yet...but it is 'painfully' obvious that it is broken....

My understanding is that some of the prewar parts are investment cast, and possibly substandard? Since mine is a non-matching gun, it is possible that such a part was in it...

At any rate, I'm going to contact LugerDoc and see if he has an original part. I have a gunsmith in this area who is familiar with Lugers (and who has some parts), but he doesn't have an original ejector. He has some post war ejectors (cast), but states that the originals would be the way to go, if I can obtain one...

So, that's what I'm looking for!

Vlim · 07-02-2008, 01:38 PM

Hi,

The prewar ejectors were of excellent condition and not cast in any way. The problem with the ejector configuration is that a lot of stress is placed onto that little tip, both while the gun is in use and when it isn't.

Failure of this part is just a matter of time. I've had modern repros fail after a few hundred shots, so I'm sticking to pre-1945 ones, or the later Mauser Parabellum ones.

lugerholsterrepair · 07-02-2008, 01:55 PM

Marlan, I cannot believe this part can be cast and tempered to make a spring. I guess stranger things have happened.

Good Luck!

Jerry Burney

Vlim · 07-02-2008, 02:24 PM

Pre-WW2 lugers have NO cast parts, apart from the plastic grips on some

Even the postwar Mauser Parabellum had it's castings limited to parts that suffered only low stresses (or none). The ejector was not one of those parts (sideplate and safety lever, amongst others, were cast).

Grasshopper · 07-02-2008, 05:40 PM

Well, I've sent an email to LugerDoc, so we will see what's what....

I HAVE decided that I definitely want to stick to an original part.

Dave Baird · 07-04-2008, 07:28 AM

I'm very sorry that breakage occured. All of us I 'm sure, would hate to loose a numbered part of a nice gun. I hope Lugerdoc can help you out. He does have many numbered original parts and who knows, you ,might be lucky.

There's a good chance that the part may have been damaged sometime in the past and the breakage was just bound to occur. Things do break. But, when the new part arrives make sure the bearing block and recess for the extractor spring are cleaned out. Powder build-up under the extractor or jamming the performance of the extractor spring could lead to another breakage. I've only owned a few Lugers in my day and every one of them had rock-hard powder under the extractor and so much in the spring that it could barely function when I got them. I'm writing this as a reminder to everyone who shoots Lugers too, not just you. Good luck and Happy Fourth!

Dave

lugerholsterrepair · 07-04-2008, 11:19 AM

Dave makes a good point. Whenever you have a small part off be sure to clean out the recess while it is off.

The ejector is not a numbered part. It is a hardened steel spring and even on my 1937 Krieghoff it was not stamped at all. No number, no proof.

Jerry Burney

Dave Baird · 07-04-2008, 01:38 PM

Thanks Jerry. My bad, I was thinking extractor, not ejector. Both do need cleaned, but I had my words mixed up. I haven't found a clean extractor spring yet, they're all caked with powder and white with beginnings of corrrosion.

Dave

Grasshopper · 07-07-2008, 11:23 AM

Thanks for the advice, I will heed it! My Luger is non-matching...I bought it specifically to shoot..

I've been in contact with Lugerdoc, so I will get the new part soon, and I've already got a gunsmith familiar with Lugers who has said he will guide me through the process...

Lugerdoc · 07-08-2008, 11:16 AM

Jerry B, Only the new repro PO8 ejectors are cast, not the originals. Dave B, I have both clean original or new repro Wolff extractor springs available @$5 each post paid. TH

Vlim · 07-08-2008, 01:42 PM

We discussed the ejectors with some Mauser engineers last weekend, since the ejector is a part which is under stress with the toggle closed, and under stress with the toggle opened, it's bound to break eventually. That is also the reason why it is an unnumbered part, it's just a part that will fail one day or the other, no doubt about it.

07-01-2008, 11:50 AM	#1
Grasshopper User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Tennessee Posts: 25 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	P08 Malfunction... I picked up a 1936 Luger (non-matching) not too long ago, in very nice condition. I took it out for a range session, and put around 50 rounds through it, with NO malfunctions..it worked flawlessly. Half of the ammo was Winchester White Box 115gr., whereas the other half was American Eagle, also 115gr. (all of it fmj ball). I took it out again Sunday and put about 24 rounds through it with no issues, when all of a sudden it stopped ejecting the spent cartridge from the pistol. The spent cartridge will extract from the chamber, but won't eject from the pistol: It's doing this with both ammo types, and with both magazines (one is an Erma magazine, the other is a triple K). I seriously doubt the issue is ammo or magazine related. Any insight you all can give me will be greatly appreciated. THANKS! __________________ "You ain't gonna git outta this life alive."

07-01-2008, 12:01 PM	#2
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	Sounds like you have broken the tip off the ejector! __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

07-01-2008, 12:53 PM	#3
Grasshopper User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Tennessee Posts: 25 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Well....that ain't good news! I was kind of thinking that.... Ok, so, how easy is it to get a replacement part? __________________ "You ain't gonna git outta this life alive."

07-01-2008, 03:22 PM	#4
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	If that is your problem, just put your needs in the WANTED forum. Tom Heller (Lugerdoc) can help you out with a replacement part. Post a photo of the top of your Luger with the toggle in the held-open position... you should be able to see the ejector in the opening. Then I can tell you if it is broken... The ejector is part number 016 on this diagram, so you can see what it looks like... the protrusion near the number 016 is the part that is likely broken off: __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

07-01-2008, 04:18 PM	#5
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,931 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Marlan, You can pop this part out relatively easily. At the back of the pistol where the spring ends in a square, there is a tiney well under this end carefully slip a tiney flat head screwdriver under this end and gently pry upwards. A short round holding pin will pop out of it's socket. The spring then can be removed. With the bolt out, like John says..you can see if the tip is missing. It will stick right into the chamber area if it is intact. You can see it easily. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

07-02-2008, 10:17 AM	#6
Grasshopper User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Tennessee Posts: 25 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	It's definitely broken off!!! Ok, so what I need to know is, does the replacement part need to be 'fitted'? Also, once fitted, does it need to be hardened or anything like that? I'm trying to decide should I get the part and do it myself, or should I have a local gunsmith familiar with Lugers do it. I'm a Glock and Remington Armorer, but I'm not a gunsmith..... __________________ "You ain't gonna git outta this life alive."

07-02-2008, 10:33 AM	#7
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	GH, The PO8 ejector will most likely require some fitting. There are 2 projections on the bottom side. Sometimes the forward one (not the tip) will have to be relieved at the front for ease of instalation. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

07-02-2008, 11:51 AM	#8
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,931 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Marlan, This IS a hardned part. Most springs are. I have switched out many originals. I wouldn't fool around with a repro. If LugerDoc has an original it's my guess it will have a good chance of slipping right in. These are tricky to install though. Like the takedown spring, they have an arch in their back. This arch must be depressed to slip the rearward round socket into it's round hole in the frame. I usually slip in the ejector protrusion and run my finger rearwards to press out the arch and sometimes you get lucky, it simply pops into place. Other times you have to finagle it, look closely under a magnifying light and see if it needs to go forward or back. I have also used a plastic tap hammer to nudge it a bit. I guess it depends on how handy you are. Did you get it out? Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

07-02-2008, 12:07 PM	#9
Grasshopper User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Tennessee Posts: 25 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	No, I didn't take it out yet...but it is 'painfully' obvious that it is broken.... My understanding is that some of the prewar parts are investment cast, and possibly substandard? Since mine is a non-matching gun, it is possible that such a part was in it... At any rate, I'm going to contact LugerDoc and see if he has an original part. I have a gunsmith in this area who is familiar with Lugers (and who has some parts), but he doesn't have an original ejector. He has some post war ejectors (cast), but states that the originals would be the way to go, if I can obtain one... So, that's what I'm looking for! __________________ "You ain't gonna git outta this life alive."

07-02-2008, 01:38 PM	#10
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,988 Times in 1,205 Posts	Hi, The prewar ejectors were of excellent condition and not cast in any way. The problem with the ejector configuration is that a lot of stress is placed onto that little tip, both while the gun is in use and when it isn't. Failure of this part is just a matter of time. I've had modern repros fail after a few hundred shots, so I'm sticking to pre-1945 ones, or the later Mauser Parabellum ones.

07-02-2008, 01:55 PM	#11
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,931 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Marlan, I cannot believe this part can be cast and tempered to make a spring. I guess stranger things have happened. Good Luck! Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

07-02-2008, 02:24 PM	#12
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,988 Times in 1,205 Posts	Pre-WW2 lugers have NO cast parts, apart from the plastic grips on some Even the postwar Mauser Parabellum had it's castings limited to parts that suffered only low stresses (or none). The ejector was not one of those parts (sideplate and safety lever, amongst others, were cast).

07-02-2008, 05:40 PM	#13
Grasshopper User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Tennessee Posts: 25 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Well, I've sent an email to LugerDoc, so we will see what's what.... I HAVE decided that I definitely want to stick to an original part. __________________ "You ain't gonna git outta this life alive."

07-04-2008, 07:28 AM	#14
Dave Baird User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Western PA Posts: 27 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I'm very sorry that breakage occured. All of us I 'm sure, would hate to loose a numbered part of a nice gun. I hope Lugerdoc can help you out. He does have many numbered original parts and who knows, you ,might be lucky. There's a good chance that the part may have been damaged sometime in the past and the breakage was just bound to occur. Things do break. But, when the new part arrives make sure the bearing block and recess for the extractor spring are cleaned out. Powder build-up under the extractor or jamming the performance of the extractor spring could lead to another breakage. I've only owned a few Lugers in my day and every one of them had rock-hard powder under the extractor and so much in the spring that it could barely function when I got them. I'm writing this as a reminder to everyone who shoots Lugers too, not just you. Good luck and Happy Fourth! Dave

07-04-2008, 11:19 AM	#15
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,931 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Dave makes a good point. Whenever you have a small part off be sure to clean out the recess while it is off. The ejector is not a numbered part. It is a hardened steel spring and even on my 1937 Krieghoff it was not stamped at all. No number, no proof. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

07-04-2008, 01:38 PM	#16
Dave Baird User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Western PA Posts: 27 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks Jerry. My bad, I was thinking extractor, not ejector. Both do need cleaned, but I had my words mixed up. I haven't found a clean extractor spring yet, they're all caked with powder and white with beginnings of corrrosion. Dave

07-07-2008, 11:23 AM	#17
Grasshopper User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Tennessee Posts: 25 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for the advice, I will heed it! My Luger is non-matching...I bought it specifically to shoot.. I've been in contact with Lugerdoc, so I will get the new part soon, and I've already got a gunsmith familiar with Lugers who has said he will guide me through the process... __________________ "You ain't gonna git outta this life alive."

07-08-2008, 11:16 AM	#18
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Jerry B, Only the new repro PO8 ejectors are cast, not the originals. Dave B, I have both clean original or new repro Wolff extractor springs available @$5 each post paid. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

07-08-2008, 01:42 PM	#19
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,988 Times in 1,205 Posts	We discussed the ejectors with some Mauser engineers last weekend, since the ejector is a part which is under stress with the toggle closed, and under stress with the toggle opened, it's bound to break eventually. That is also the reason why it is an unnumbered part, it's just a part that will fail one day or the other, no doubt about it.