TP Markings

bill m · 11-03-2001, 06:11 PM

Hi all,

Marvin, I looked at 9 TP or PTV marked Weimar Lugers that I have. 8 of these are two matching magazine outfits. I only have 1 with the barrel serial numbered and it is a 1920/1920. Of the 9 Lugers that I have, 2 are double dates with 1916/1920, and 1920/1920, 3 are Imperial Lugers with dates of 1911, 1917, and 1917, 1 has a 1920 date, and 3 are blank chambered.

The under side of the barrel is blank or stamped with a 3, 4, or 5. All are marked with either an Eagle 6 or Eagle 33, or both. None have the origianl barrel, as all of these are replacements. Even the 1920/1920 that has the serial number on the barrel is Simson Eagle 6 marked and is a replacement.

I am confused with you having an original marked barrel on your 1917/1920 Luger as that just doesn't seem right. The TP or PTV marked barrels are replacements for the Police and reworked by Simson. Simson is the only proofs on these that I have ever seen. My 1911 also has a SU25 on the barrel, but that is also a Simson proof. I'll bet if you look closer at your Luger you will find that it has a replacement barrel on it? The Weimar Eagle is similar to the Imperial test proof and all of the Weimar TP or PTV marked Lugers will have the Weimar Eagle directly under the TP or PTV mark. This is not an Imperial mark. Let us know if this isn't actually the case, please. I have no idea what the 3, 4, or 5 means, and have never read about it in any books, just observed it. One other item of interest is that very few of these have Police property markings on the front grip strap. Of my 9, only 2 are marked, the 1911, and the 1920. Have a good weekend. -- bill m

bill m · 11-03-2001, 06:18 PM

If the original barrel is on the gun, it would have the letter suffix on it also. The replacement barrels almost always only have the serial number, but no letter suffix.

Marvin · 11-03-2001, 06:50 PM

Bill,

I will look when I get home if a Simson proof is on the barrel, but I don't think so. As to the suffix letter on the barrel, I don't remember either.

In a previous post today, Tom Heller made a comment on the barrel stamp. maybe he can provide some additional details too.

Marvin

11-04-2001, 08:42 AM

Marvin, I agree with Bill M.'s comments. I too have seen the Simson barrels on reworked WW1 PO8s with the 3,4 or 5 stamped under the barrel. Some collectors claim that this indicates the year of rework: 1923, 24 or 25. I've never seen this in print, but you might check Still's Weimar lugers to make sure, as it makes sense to me.

Marvin · 11-04-2001, 05:52 PM

Tom and Bill,

I also agree that the Simson replacement barrels have the 3, 4 or 5 stamped on the underside of the barrel, but my 1917/1920 Police Luger has the original barrel with the serial number and Imperial stamps along with the E/PTV and no 3, 4, or 5 stamp. If my memory serves me correct as I don't have any reference books with me, The E/PTV was only used at the Berlin Police Techinical Academy Armory. I think Still and Walter references this in their books.

Marvin

bill m · 11-04-2001, 07:32 PM

Hi Marvin,

So to get things clear in my mind, you are looking at your Luger and it has the original Imperial barrel, with the serial number on the bottom, and letter suffix, and the Imperial test eagle on the top right side, and then below that you have an Weimar Eagle and the PTV stamp? So this barrel has two Eagle proofs? And since it is the original barrel, it lacks Simson proofs of Eagle 6 or Eagle 33? The underside of the barrel does not have to have a 3, 4, or 5 as some lack this and are blank. If this is the case it is like nothing I have ever seen before or heard of. I have never seen or heard of a TP or PTV marked barrel that wasn't a replacement. I'm sorry, but I do not think this is correct at all. You are sure your barrel is the original Imperial one? -- If it is the original barrel, I'd say someone was playing with their die set. Or, you have the only one known to date?

Marvin · 11-05-2001, 07:18 AM

Bill,

As I said, I am not at home and cannot get to the pistol, but if my memory serves me correct, the barrel is original. If all goes well, I will be home sometimes this coming weekend and will actually be able to see the barrel. Once I do that, I will post a message and we can get things straight. The reason I think the barrel is original, is that I would have noticed an odd number on the barrel or the lack of the serial number, but you know how it is when you start to get old, the mind is the seconf thing to go, ha, ha, ha!

Seriously, I will post more info this weekend!

Marvin

11-03-2001, 06:11 PM	#1
bill m User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 385 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	TP Markings Hi all, Marvin, I looked at 9 TP or PTV marked Weimar Lugers that I have. 8 of these are two matching magazine outfits. I only have 1 with the barrel serial numbered and it is a 1920/1920. Of the 9 Lugers that I have, 2 are double dates with 1916/1920, and 1920/1920, 3 are Imperial Lugers with dates of 1911, 1917, and 1917, 1 has a 1920 date, and 3 are blank chambered. The under side of the barrel is blank or stamped with a 3, 4, or 5. All are marked with either an Eagle 6 or Eagle 33, or both. None have the origianl barrel, as all of these are replacements. Even the 1920/1920 that has the serial number on the barrel is Simson Eagle 6 marked and is a replacement. I am confused with you having an original marked barrel on your 1917/1920 Luger as that just doesn't seem right. The TP or PTV marked barrels are replacements for the Police and reworked by Simson. Simson is the only proofs on these that I have ever seen. My 1911 also has a SU25 on the barrel, but that is also a Simson proof. I'll bet if you look closer at your Luger you will find that it has a replacement barrel on it? The Weimar Eagle is similar to the Imperial test proof and all of the Weimar TP or PTV marked Lugers will have the Weimar Eagle directly under the TP or PTV mark. This is not an Imperial mark. Let us know if this isn't actually the case, please. I have no idea what the 3, 4, or 5 means, and have never read about it in any books, just observed it. One other item of interest is that very few of these have Police property markings on the front grip strap. Of my 9, only 2 are marked, the 1911, and the 1920. Have a good weekend. -- bill m

11-03-2001, 06:18 PM	#2
bill m User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 385 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	One More Thing If the original barrel is on the gun, it would have the letter suffix on it also. The replacement barrels almost always only have the serial number, but no letter suffix.

11-03-2001, 06:50 PM	#3
Marvin User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Upstate S.C. Posts: 1,132 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: One More Thing Bill, I will look when I get home if a Simson proof is on the barrel, but I don't think so. As to the suffix letter on the barrel, I don't remember either. In a previous post today, Tom Heller made a comment on the barrel stamp. maybe he can provide some additional details too. Marvin

11-04-2001, 08:42 AM	#4
tom h Guest Posts: n/a	Re: One More Thing Marvin, I agree with Bill M.'s comments. I too have seen the Simson barrels on reworked WW1 PO8s with the 3,4 or 5 stamped under the barrel. Some collectors claim that this indicates the year of rework: 1923, 24 or 25. I've never seen this in print, but you might check Still's Weimar lugers to make sure, as it makes sense to me.

11-04-2001, 05:52 PM	#5
Marvin User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Upstate S.C. Posts: 1,132 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: One More Thing Tom and Bill, I also agree that the Simson replacement barrels have the 3, 4 or 5 stamped on the underside of the barrel, but my 1917/1920 Police Luger has the original barrel with the serial number and Imperial stamps along with the E/PTV and no 3, 4, or 5 stamp. If my memory serves me correct as I don't have any reference books with me, The E/PTV was only used at the Berlin Police Techinical Academy Armory. I think Still and Walter references this in their books. Marvin

11-04-2001, 07:32 PM	#6
bill m User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 385 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Original Barrel Hi Marvin, So to get things clear in my mind, you are looking at your Luger and it has the original Imperial barrel, with the serial number on the bottom, and letter suffix, and the Imperial test eagle on the top right side, and then below that you have an Weimar Eagle and the PTV stamp? So this barrel has two Eagle proofs? And since it is the original barrel, it lacks Simson proofs of Eagle 6 or Eagle 33? The underside of the barrel does not have to have a 3, 4, or 5 as some lack this and are blank. If this is the case it is like nothing I have ever seen before or heard of. I have never seen or heard of a TP or PTV marked barrel that wasn't a replacement. I'm sorry, but I do not think this is correct at all. You are sure your barrel is the original Imperial one? -- If it is the original barrel, I'd say someone was playing with their die set. Or, you have the only one known to date?

11-05-2001, 07:18 AM	#7
Marvin User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Upstate S.C. Posts: 1,132 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Original Barrel Bill, As I said, I am not at home and cannot get to the pistol, but if my memory serves me correct, the barrel is original. If all goes well, I will be home sometimes this coming weekend and will actually be able to see the barrel. Once I do that, I will post a message and we can get things straight. The reason I think the barrel is original, is that I would have noticed an odd number on the barrel or the lack of the serial number, but you know how it is when you start to get old, the mind is the seconf thing to go, ha, ha, ha! Seriously, I will post more info this weekend! Marvin