Help with holster ID

Pukin Dog · 03-24-2008, 01:02 PM

Howdy,
I'm mainly a Cowboy Action Shooter but my Dad who is a WWII vet brought home a P-38 Walther but had it in a Luger holster. My guess is the holster is worth more than his P-38 since it looks like a very late War production Spreewerkes make with the cvq mark vice the cyq mark.

Any way, the holster has these marks at the top:

Johann Biertz
G.M.B.H
VI?RSEN
19?6

The ? marks are letters I can't make out.

Any info you can give would be interesting.

Pukin Dog · 03-24-2008, 01:55 PM

some pics:

Pukin Dog · 03-24-2008, 01:56 PM

more

Pukin Dog · 03-24-2008, 01:57 PM

wish I could figure out multiple photos:

Pukin Dog · 03-24-2008, 01:58 PM

markings:

Pukin Dog · 03-24-2008, 01:59 PM

clip side:

lugerholsterrepair · 03-24-2008, 02:43 PM

Dan, You have a nice 1916 Luger holster. The GMBH is a German acronym for manufactured or some such.
There is a list of over 300 holster manufacturers here as a sticky. Just look it over and you may be able to find the letter that you can't see.
I would guess this holster would sell in the $300+ range.
Your holster has a couple of things wrong with it. The stitching is coming loose on the magazine pouch. Might be because a P-38 mag was stuffed into it. The pull-up strap knot looks like it broke off and the strap was then folded over and stitched...Maybe not but from the photo it looks odd. It may be tight if you put a Luger into it, stretching the short strap.
Thank your Dad for his service..It is appreciated by many of us...
Jerry Burney

Pukin Dog · 03-24-2008, 03:55 PM

Thanks for the quick answers. I'll pass them on to my Dad. He is 88 years old but still in great shape. I try to spend as much time as I can with him bugging him about the war since I know his generation is passing away quickly. I've gotten quite a few good strories out of him and had him tell his story to the Wisconsin Historical Society.

Funny, then they wanted me to tell my story as an A-6 Intruder Bombardier/Navigator. Guess it shocked me to realize I'm historical too!!

lugerholsterrepair · 03-24-2008, 04:00 PM

Wing Commander Gibson, how many operations have you been on over Germany?' 'One hundred and seventy-four.' There was a stunned silence."

And well deserved silence too as the casualty rate for raids into Germany during daylight by the British bombers were horrific. On many raids only two thirds of the aircraft returned to base and on several occasions that topped 50%.
Incredibly brave men....
Jerry Burney

Pukin Dog · 03-29-2008, 09:05 PM

The famous flyer, Wg Cdr Guy Gibson VC

Very happy to hear about WG Gibson, not that he has much to do about the holster I'm inquiring about.

Any other info that anyone can chime in about???

Vlim · 03-30-2008, 09:13 AM

I'm actually only some 30 km from Steenbergen,

I'll look him up when I get there.

Pukin Dog · 03-30-2008, 01:56 PM

Look, I'm an old Navy pilot so I meant no disrespect to WG Gibson. His record of bravery was incredible. It's just that the thread was hijacked on me and I wanted to get it back on subject.

The holster with its non-standard P-38 pistol resident is back in my father's closet where I hope it stays for some time. He was happy to hear some of the details about it and told me how he came up with it.

Turns out, he was a driver for a battalion Lt. Col and when they rounded up a bunch of prisoners near the end of the war, he was the only one around who knew German well. (Actually he spoke a Swiss dialect and could understand the prisoners more than they could understand him, but since he was the custodian, that didn't matter too much :-)

He was able to get some good info out of them and the Colonel told him to help himself to whatever he wanted from the contraband. So he picked out the P-38 (probably the worst choice he could have made as it was a very late made one and has rather poor workmanship) and the holster. They were not together at the time so he didn't know they were mismatched. But then, he was just a cheesemaker drafted late in the war and wasn't much up on Lugers and Walthers. Just wanted the war to get over so he could get back to his wife and baby daughter.

Thanks again for shedding light on the holster for me. I love history and enjoy finding out the little things.

Pukin Dog · 03-30-2008, 05:48 PM

Tac,
No problem. As I said, I'm an old Naval Aviator and have a pretty thick hide. Thanks again for the info you shed on the holster.

Actually I would like to ask one more thing. Should I put some leather oil on it to preserve it? Its pretty dry. Or just leave it alone?

lugerholsterrepair · 03-30-2008, 07:58 PM

GmBH is the abbreviation for Gesellschaft mit beschrÃ?Â¤nkter Haftung which, translated literally, means a 'company with limited liability'. In English, it is seen as the 'Ltd' after a company registered in UK.

Thanks Tac...I can never remember that!

Dan, Your holster looks about normal for one of WW1 vintage. Please consider what you ever put on this holster if anything. Oil will destroy it. It penetrates and loosens the fibers so they no longer hold together. Makes it mushy and it loses it's form.
It's thought by many that the best thing to put on these is a big gob of nothing. That's the safest thing to do by the way.
I have found a product that seems to be good, Connolly's Hide Care. It can be found on Ebay. $25.00 with shipping usually. Enough to do a hundred holsters.
Primarily lanolin, little discoloration, soaks in.. polishes nicely and leaves that good ole leather smell intact.
By the way, do not put either the P-38 or it's magazine into this holster. It will do the holster and the pistol no good.
If you would ever like to trade this holster for a fine hardshell P-38 holster to match your pistol let me know...
Jerry Burney

03-24-2008, 01:02 PM	#1
Pukin Dog User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Madison, Wi Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Help with holster ID Howdy, I'm mainly a Cowboy Action Shooter but my Dad who is a WWII vet brought home a P-38 Walther but had it in a Luger holster. My guess is the holster is worth more than his P-38 since it looks like a very late War production Spreewerkes make with the cvq mark vice the cyq mark. Any way, the holster has these marks at the top: Johann Biertz G.M.B.H VI?RSEN 19?6 The ? marks are letters I can't make out. Any info you can give would be interesting. __________________ Pukin Dog

03-24-2008, 01:55 PM	#2
Pukin Dog User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Madison, Wi Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	some pics: Attached Images __________________ Pukin Dog

03-24-2008, 01:56 PM	#3
Pukin Dog User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Madison, Wi Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	more Attached Images __________________ Pukin Dog

03-24-2008, 01:57 PM	#4
Pukin Dog User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Madison, Wi Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	wish I could figure out multiple photos: Attached Images __________________ Pukin Dog

03-24-2008, 01:58 PM	#5
Pukin Dog User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Madison, Wi Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	markings: Attached Images __________________ Pukin Dog

03-24-2008, 01:59 PM	#6
Pukin Dog User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Madison, Wi Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	clip side: Attached Images __________________ Pukin Dog

03-24-2008, 02:43 PM	#7
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,766 Thanks: 4,883 Thanked 3,120 Times in 1,432 Posts	Dan, You have a nice 1916 Luger holster. The GMBH is a German acronym for manufactured or some such. There is a list of over 300 holster manufacturers here as a sticky. Just look it over and you may be able to find the letter that you can't see. I would guess this holster would sell in the $300+ range. Your holster has a couple of things wrong with it. The stitching is coming loose on the magazine pouch. Might be because a P-38 mag was stuffed into it. The pull-up strap knot looks like it broke off and the strap was then folded over and stitched...Maybe not but from the photo it looks odd. It may be tight if you put a Luger into it, stretching the short strap. Thank your Dad for his service..It is appreciated by many of us... Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

03-24-2008, 03:55 PM	#8
Pukin Dog User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Madison, Wi Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for the quick answers. I'll pass them on to my Dad. He is 88 years old but still in great shape. I try to spend as much time as I can with him bugging him about the war since I know his generation is passing away quickly. I've gotten quite a few good strories out of him and had him tell his story to the Wisconsin Historical Society. Funny, then they wanted me to tell my story as an A-6 Intruder Bombardier/Navigator. Guess it shocked me to realize I'm historical too!! __________________ Pukin Dog

03-24-2008, 04:00 PM	#9
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,766 Thanks: 4,883 Thanked 3,120 Times in 1,432 Posts	Wing Commander Gibson, how many operations have you been on over Germany?' 'One hundred and seventy-four.' There was a stunned silence." And well deserved silence too as the casualty rate for raids into Germany during daylight by the British bombers were horrific. On many raids only two thirds of the aircraft returned to base and on several occasions that topped 50%. Incredibly brave men.... Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

03-29-2008, 09:05 PM	#10
Pukin Dog User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Madison, Wi Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	The famous flyer, Wg Cdr Guy Gibson VC Very happy to hear about WG Gibson, not that he has much to do about the holster I'm inquiring about. Any other info that anyone can chime in about??? __________________ Pukin Dog

03-30-2008, 09:13 AM	#11
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,987 Times in 1,205 Posts	I'm actually only some 30 km from Steenbergen, I'll look him up when I get there.

03-30-2008, 01:56 PM	#12
Pukin Dog User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Madison, Wi Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Look, I'm an old Navy pilot so I meant no disrespect to WG Gibson. His record of bravery was incredible. It's just that the thread was hijacked on me and I wanted to get it back on subject. The holster with its non-standard P-38 pistol resident is back in my father's closet where I hope it stays for some time. He was happy to hear some of the details about it and told me how he came up with it. Turns out, he was a driver for a battalion Lt. Col and when they rounded up a bunch of prisoners near the end of the war, he was the only one around who knew German well. (Actually he spoke a Swiss dialect and could understand the prisoners more than they could understand him, but since he was the custodian, that didn't matter too much :-) He was able to get some good info out of them and the Colonel told him to help himself to whatever he wanted from the contraband. So he picked out the P-38 (probably the worst choice he could have made as it was a very late made one and has rather poor workmanship) and the holster. They were not together at the time so he didn't know they were mismatched. But then, he was just a cheesemaker drafted late in the war and wasn't much up on Lugers and Walthers. Just wanted the war to get over so he could get back to his wife and baby daughter. Thanks again for shedding light on the holster for me. I love history and enjoy finding out the little things. __________________ Pukin Dog

03-30-2008, 05:48 PM	#13
Pukin Dog User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Madison, Wi Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Tac, No problem. As I said, I'm an old Naval Aviator and have a pretty thick hide. Thanks again for the info you shed on the holster. Actually I would like to ask one more thing. Should I put some leather oil on it to preserve it? Its pretty dry. Or just leave it alone? __________________ Pukin Dog

03-30-2008, 07:58 PM	#14
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,766 Thanks: 4,883 Thanked 3,120 Times in 1,432 Posts	GmBH is the abbreviation for Gesellschaft mit beschrÃ?Â¤nkter Haftung which, translated literally, means a 'company with limited liability'. In English, it is seen as the 'Ltd' after a company registered in UK. Thanks Tac...I can never remember that! Dan, Your holster looks about normal for one of WW1 vintage. Please consider what you ever put on this holster if anything. Oil will destroy it. It penetrates and loosens the fibers so they no longer hold together. Makes it mushy and it loses it's form. It's thought by many that the best thing to put on these is a big gob of nothing. That's the safest thing to do by the way. I have found a product that seems to be good, Connolly's Hide Care. It can be found on Ebay. $25.00 with shipping usually. Enough to do a hundred holsters. Primarily lanolin, little discoloration, soaks in.. polishes nicely and leaves that good ole leather smell intact. By the way, do not put either the P-38 or it's magazine into this holster. It will do the holster and the pistol no good. If you would ever like to trade this holster for a fine hardshell P-38 holster to match your pistol let me know... Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."