Tulsa; Is it Worth it?

[Meridius]

Hi guys, I'm new to this forum. I collect German firearms and have had quite some trouble finding what I'm looking for locally. Do you think the Tulsa gunshow is worth the trip from San Antonio? What do you think my chances of finding either a 1917 Artillery luger, Large Ring Mauser Broomhandle, Duv G43, or Gew 98 (all collectors grade) would be? Are there tables full of these things there or are they far and few between? If I knew what my chances were of finding what I'm looking for it be easier to figure out if it's worth the trip.

Thanks for any advice,
Meridius

I assume you are refering to the Wanenmacher Show. There are other guns shows in Tulsa. The Wanenmacher show is the best gun shown I have attended. I would advise you to allow yourself at least two days to go thru the show because of the size. Friday is the setup day and a lot of guns trades and sales are made between table holders. I think you can find what you want. It starts about 1030 hrs on Fri and goes to about 1900 hrs. Sat is very good. By Sunday most of the activity is over.

[Pete Ebbink]

Max,

1. Here is the link to the show info.

http://www.tulsaarmsshow.com/frames.html

2. Friday is only "open" to folks that are table-holders. Sat. and Sun are the "public" days...but you have to pay admission for each day on Sat. and Sun...never liked that about this show...they do not offer a weekend price.

3. Bring your most comfortable walking shoes and plenty of ibuprofen or aspirin...you feet, calves, legs will ache...

The exhibit hall was originally built to showcase heavy-duty industrial equipment used in oil drilling, etc. They have concrete slab floor rated at 6,000 psi mix which is quite hard and unforgiving when it comes to pain.

4. The show is good place for a beginning collector to see the wide ranges of guns offered (Lugers in my case...). BUT...lots of "boosted" Lugers are offered for sale as "orginal" by some dealers with big names and reputations...so leave your cash at home if you are just starting out. It is very educational to see such "minty" Lugers offered for sale...you have to ask yourself...how can a gun that is 60-100 years old look that good...?

5. The gun show is crowded and jam packed...you need 2 full days to see it all.

6. At the lower exhibit floor you will see nice displays of guns in the "display" competion...do not miss that area.

7. Take the time to "hunt" for smaller parts such as Luger parts, holsters, grips, magazines...it has been worthwhile for me to do so the last few times I attended...my last two times to Tulsa I have not purchased a gun, but alway managed to find the other items to round out a rig in my collection.

8. When you enter the show, get a copy of the free locator map at the info. booth. When you walk around and spot an item but do not want to buy it just then, mark its location on your map so you can go back and find it again when you have convinced yourself you need to buy that item.

You can also mark-up your map with the table locations of the big Luger dealers that are listed on the vendor's list at the info. booth. I usually will visit all of those tables first...and then start over again walking the floor, aisle-by-aisle, table-by-table.

9. There are many non-gun and non-knife tables with the regular beef jerky, arts & crafts, jewelry, etc. I think the show promoter limits those to under 20% of the total tables...but since the show has 4,000+ tables, you will see plenty of those "junk" tables...as many as 800 of them...

I know a few older, advanced collectors whom remember the Tulsa show of years ago and have now stopped going as they say it has become too much of a "flea market" and way too many boosted guns in all collecting areas are offered for sale to the unsuspecting.

[Meridius]

Thanks for the information and advice! That's the kind of info I have been looking for. I'm hoping to go to the October show but I'll only have enough time to stay for the day. It sounds like I'll really need to pick up the pace to see everything. I'm mainly hoping to find a Duv G43 or a DWM artillery luger while I'm there. I started collecting G43s and broomhandles some time ago and know how to spot most of the fakes but I'm completely new to lugers. Are artillery lugers commonly messed with and faked? Is there a webpage that you could recommend that discusses certain things to look for?

Thanks again for the help!

[Pete Ebbink]

Max,

YES...LP08's along with ALL other Lugers are being boosted.

Here is a web site link to study a decent one. It was advertised as "refinished" but I think it was original finish.

Look for the "halo" effect around the numbers on the underside of the barrel, on the left side of the receiver, and on some of the 2-digit numbers on the top of the breechblock and toggle link.

There are faint traces of "fire blue" on some of the pins and parts of the rear sight as well.

Has some nice "patina" showing through the gun's blue as well...if your PC screen has a high-rez to see it...

There is even some nice rust in the bottom of a couple of the numbers of the serial number on the front of the frame.

http://68.167.203.107:8050/FMPro?-db...12584808&-Find

Even some standard P08 Lugers are being "turned into" an Artilllery model with the right barrel added and receiver notch added...

[Meridius]

Was the inside of the frame and receiver originally left in the white or blued?

Thanks again,
Max

[Pete Ebbink]

In-the-white for WWI era guns...

Most of the high-end guys "boosting" a piece do not usually make that mistake...so look to the exterior finish for tells of a re-do.

If you do not see the "halos"...it has probably been re-done at some point in time.

Also...look at the metal grip strap metal UNDER the wooden grips. This is a place where the wood can hold moisture and lead to pitting of the metal. If you see "bluing" deep down in the pits, it has been redone.

[Meridius]

From what I've seen online it looks like there is a wide range on the pricing of DWM LP08's. What would be the most you would pay for a DWM LP08 with the adjustable screws on the front and rear sights (all matching)? I want to make sure I don't pay too much if I end up finding one.

[Pete Ebbink]

I guess I would want to pay no more than $ 2400-2500 for a 1914-1918 DWM LP-08...

The adjustable front and rear sights phased out in stages in the 1917 model. By 1918, both sights are fixed and non-adjustable.

Doug Smith and Ken Clark of FGS out of Ohio have very strong reputations amongst most collectors I know.

If you visit their web site, you will see the vast price range of the Artillery models :

http://www.fgsinc.8m.com/photo_2.html

Bob and Brad Simpson of Simpson LTD in IL State also have many arty offerings...you can see their pricing range as well.

http://www.simpsonltd.com/index.php?cPath=179_238

Seems the dealers usually run 10-20% higher than sales between private collectors.

BTW...here is a Poll we ran asking LF members which dealers they would buy their SECOND Luger from...

http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthre...highlight=Poll

[Pete Ebbink]

Max,

I have a paper copy of the article gunsmith Dave Norin wrote back in 2002 for the "Man At Arms' magazine.

The article is titled "Spotting Luger Restorations".

I have scanned it as a pdf-file.

If you want a copy of this, send me a Private Message through the LF with your email address and I will email you this article.

[P. J. Heck]

The show being discussed here does not allow Class 3 guns, I dont know about related items. I avoid all shows that separate and delete any portion of the gun collecting field. Divide and conquer is an old tactic used by our enemies........this show is helping promote that. Are they playing the politically correctness game??? What will they decide to eliminate next???? They certainly wont miss me anyway........

[Aaron]

Pete, if you close your eyes for a few seconds Luger prices leap wildly forward. It would be very difficult to get a decent artillery at the moment for less than 3K.

[Pete Ebbink]

Aaron...

You are certainly right...I am in deep denial...still back in the mind set of 3 years ago when a nice 1918 would go for $ 1800.

But I do think a 80-85%-finish arty can still be had for a reasonable price...

[Meridius]

It seems like I jumped into collecting right when the prices started to sky rocket. I can't imagine what they will be like ten years from now. At this rate, ttâ??s only a matter of time before we will have to shell out $10,000 for a broomhandle or luger. Could these high prices possibly be just a phase?

[lugerholsterrepair]

Meridius, Yes it's just a phase..Like the full moon eclipse of last night. The moon will darken and shine again two hours later on HIGHER prices. For those of you who have been asleep for some time, God ain't making no more of this stuff. Yes..you have to sort the wheat from the chaff but the good stuff is out there.
I f I had good sense I would mortgage my house and buy everything along the militaria line not nailed down. Had I done this ten years ago I would now be a wealthy man. Now I am a poor man and looking at prices that are unheard of just a few short years ago. Supply and demand. Pure and simple.
Jerry Burney